Fanocracy: What it is and what it means with author David Meerman Scott

On Top of PR podcast: Fanocracy with guest David Meerman Scott and show host Jason Mudd episode graphic

In this episode, author of Wall Street Journal’s best-selling “Fanocracy” David Meerman Scott goes into depth about his book and the science surrounding it. He describes what “fanocracy” is, why free things make loyal customers, the science behind fans and the ways to gain them, why passion is infectious, and much more. This episode will give great insight into your consumers’ minds and help you strategically use the information you learn.

Tune into this episode to learn more about how to gain fans and customers.

Watch the episode here

5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:

How to build fans and customers
Why free things make loyal customers
Why we are fans of things
The importance of video for your business
Why passion is infectious and how your employees can build passion among fans

Highlights

[00:35] What is fanocracy?

[03:39] Tips on how to build fans and customers

[07:16] Why do free things make loyal customers?

[09:00] How to ask management to give away free things

[11:50] The neuroscience behind why we are fans of things

[14:53] The neuroscience behind the importance of video

[20:08] Why companies must let go of their creations to create fans

[24:45] Why is passion infectious?

Resources

Disclosure: One or more of the links we share here might be affiliate links that offer us a referral reward when you buy from them.

Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR podcast.
Find out more about “Fanocracy.”
Learn about all of David Meerman Scott’s books.
You can find David Meerman Scott on Twitter.
Connect and learn more about David Meerman Scott on LinkedIn.

Additional Episode Resources:

Additional Resources from Axia Public Relations:

About David Meerman Scott

Our episode guest is David Meerman Scott, author of “Fanocracy” and the “New Rules of Marketing and PR” series. David is passionate about the band the Grateful Dead, surfing, and a few other things, as well as sharing research and advice to improve companies’ marketing strategies.

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Transcript

- Hello, and welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your host, Jason Mudd, with Axia Public Relations. And today, we're joined by author David Meerman Scott. David, welcome to the show.

- Hey, Jason, so good to be here. Thanks very much for having me on.

- Well, we're glad to be here. Glad you're here. Your bio says that you are a business growth strategist, entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and author of 12 books, including New York, excuse me, Wall Street Journal bestseller, "Fanocracy." Tell us, what is "Fanocracy?"

- So "Fanocracy" is this book I wrote with my daughter, Reiko; she's now 28 years old. "Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans." And this book came about because my former books were mainly about online marketing. I'm best known for a book called "The New Rules of Marketing & PR." That book is now in 29 languages. It's in the seventh edition right now. We've sold about a half million copies just in the English language. And it was really the pioneering book on how to do online marketing. And I'm seeing today, and I first started to see this about five years ago, that online marketing has really gotten a bad name and online public relations has really gotten a bad name with so many organizations spamming people and the social networks themselves, especially Facebook, are part of the problem because of their algorithms, especially the Facebook algorithm that breeds people who believe in conspiracy theories, it puts people into places where they're against other people. I mean, it's really gotten to be kind of bad. So I think at the same time that online and social media has, in some cases, become a difficult place to do public relations and marketing. I've noticed that the things I'm a fan of, I love. Like I'm a huge fan of the Grateful Dead. You see a logo over my shoulder. I'm a fan of surfing. I'm not very good at it, but I love surfing. I love the Apollo lunar program. And my daughter Reiko loves Harry Potter. She loves K-pop, Korean pop music. So we dug in deep into the idea of how and why people become fans of something. Reiko did a neuroscience degree at Columbia University. She's now an emergency room doctor at Boston Medical Center. So we dug into the neuroscience around what happens when we become fans of something. And this idea of fandom, what I call fanocracy, is something that we can use as elements of our marketing strategies and our public relations strategies.

- Well, that sounds great. You do definitely have a very cool, personalized background. And if people are tuning into the videocast, they can see that. If they're listening to the audio version, they may want to tune in to take a look at your setup.

- I'm talking to you from my home studio. I've got a couple of different cameras going on here. So, I love presenting from here and have had to really change up the way that I do my presentations because of COVID. I typically had done 30 or 40 speaking engagements all over the world. I've spoken in more than 40 countries, but for the last couple of years, because of COVID, I'm pretty much doing virtual in this studio right here.

- So let's talk about, you know, we spoke earlier, a lot of our audience is going to be corporate marketers or corporate communicators. And so how, what are some of your initial tips and recommendations for them to start building fans and turning customers into fans?

- So there's a number of things we can riff on here, but you know, let's go to the Grateful Dead here. It's over my shoulder, the Grateful Dead logo. I'm a massive fan of the Grateful Dead. I saw my first Grateful Dead concert when I was a teenager back in 1979 and have seen 83 concerts since then. They're now touring as Dead & Company with John Mayer playing the Jerry Garcia role. I saw them six times just in 2021. And one of the things that the Grateful Dead did, which was so awesome, was they were one of the only bands that did and still do allow fans to record their concerts. Every other band said, "No, you can't record concerts." The Grateful Dead said, "Sure, why not?" You could even bring professional-level recording gear in to record concerts. I know, it's crazy, right? And so this idea of giving away free content with absolutely no expectation of anything in return, or for that matter, giving any kind of gift without any expectation of anything in return, is a really, really great way to build fans. Now, in the case of the Grateful Dead, every other band said, "No, you can't record the music." Grateful Dead said, "Sure." So thousands of shows were recorded. And initially, in the early days, when I was a teenager, people traded cassette tapes, later on, of course, became MP3 files. And that's how people like me became fans of the band because we heard these concerts in dorm rooms and in people's cars and people's apartments. And then people like me would say, "Ooh, I want to go to a Grateful Dead concert," and now I've been to 83. I probably spent $10,000 last year on the Grateful Dead. And so this idea of giving gifts is super interesting. Let me give you one more example, which is unbelievably great PR in the case of giving gifts. And that's from a company called Duracell. So Duracell, of course, the battery company, I have a Duracell battery right here. Duracell has a program called PowerForward. PowerForward delivers batteries to people who are victims of natural disasters, and they provide them for free. So hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, I'm supposed to have a snowstorm on Saturday with between 8 and 15 inches of snow here in Boston, where I live. Maybe we'll have a natural disaster in Boston. They take these trucks in the PowerForward program and give people batteries totally for free. You don't have to fill out a form. You don't have to give your email address. It's like, "Here, what kind of batteries do you want for your flashlight?" or whatever it is that you need. And they've given away over 10 million batteries to people who need them because of natural disasters. And it's huge for them. It builds unbelievable fandom. If you go to their Facebook page, for example, they have 6 million followers and you see, very frequently, they're posting about where that PowerForward truck will be, and people absolutely love it. So again, giving gifts with no expectation of anything in return, Grateful Dead, Duracell batteries – great way to build fans and a great public relations strategy.

- I love it, David. That's very interesting. And I love how you can cite those two case studies. What is it about free gifts that motivate people to … become loyal to a brand?

- Well, there's a couple things going on here. The first thing is that people are surprised by “truly free” because we've been trained that “free” doesn't necessarily mean free. You know, there's all these free offers, but then it comes with some kind of catch. Here's a typical one that many companies use in their public relations and communications programs, especially B2B companies, but all kinds of companies: They provide a free piece of content. Maybe it's a white paper or an e-book. And they say: "Totally free. Download our white paper." But it's not free because you have to give your email address to download it. And so that's not totally free. That's not giving a gift [without] any expectation of anything in return. That's a coercion technique. It's saying the white paper's free. Well, it is free – you don't have to pay money – but you do have to pay by giving up your contact information, by giving a part of yourself. That's like if you go to a bar and you find somebody who's attractive and the first thing you say to them is, "I think you're attractive; give me your business card so I have your phone number." It doesn't work. So thinking about it in a completely different way, about how you can build fans, is the way to approach it. And there are so many companies out there who don't do this – they're doing the opposite. They're using a coercion technique by offering something seemingly free, but it's not. It's actually putting roadblocks against that content.

- So, let's say one of our audience members is tuning in. They love what you're saying, they're inspired by it, they're motivated by it. How do you think, how might they go about selling this to management and not falling on deaf ears?

- I would firstly say to management, "Hey, how often do you fill out a form to get a white paper?" I mean, what, how are you different, you know? I remember back in the day, 20, more than 20 years ago, I've now been on my own, writing, speaking, writing books for 20 years. But prior to that, I was the vice president of marketing of a couple different technology companies. And I remember I would go into the mailroom and the CEO of the company and the other executives of the company would go to their mailbox in the mailroom and they'd pull out all the junk mail and they'd throw it into the recycle bin. Then they'd turn to me and say, "Hey, David, how's that direct mail program you're working on going?" Right? So it's this complete disconnect. So what I would say to the executive team, if you're facing this challenge is, "Hey, let's talk about you. Do you fill out those forms?" The answer is no, they don't. Most people don't fill out the forms. They see the form and they back off because they expect that they're going to have the company that's going to try to put them on a spam list or try to call them up on the phone to sell them something. So that's the first thing I would do. The second thing I would do is talk about this idea of fandom with the executive team. You know, what are you a fan of? Literally ask people. So I'll ask you now, Jason, what are you a fan of? A sports team, something you love to play yourself, it might be an author of a book or a particular company you love, a product or a service. You know, many people, for example, love Peloton or your local sports team. What are you a fan of, Jason?

- Well, you're catching me on the cuff here. I would say, you know, I'm a big fan of Florida Gators football and, you know, I've probably spent too much money on Apple and Tesla products.

- Okay, all right, there you go. I've got you pegged in a little bit there, so right. So now I'm quizzing you about what you're a fan of. And we could spend, you know, we could spend an hour talking about this. The idea is that you are a passionate fan of Apple and Tesla and Florida Gators. Imagine, I would then suggest that you ask the people who are reluctant to build fans or these ideas that I'm sharing, I would say to them, "Imagine if people are as passionate about our company and our products as you are about the Florida Gators or Tesla or Apple." And that's entirely possible if you focus, instead of trying to coerce people and trying to sell products and services, but instead, look at how you can create fans. Now, we looked especially into this aspect of the neuroscience of fandom, what's going on in our brains when we become a fan of something. And it turns out that when we become a fan of something, what we're doing is we're actually wanting to be part of a tribe of like-minded people. That's what all humans are, we're hard-wired for that. Because when we're with our, you know, the savanna or in the plains of North America and it was 20,000 years ago and you're with your tribe of 50 or 100 people … you’re safe and you're comfortable. But if you're out on your own, you're vulnerable. That's why when we walk into a crowded room and we know people, we feel great. We walk into a crowded elevator, we feel a little bit nervous. So here's an image of my friends and I at a Grateful Dead concert. This is Grateful Dead concert. And though those of you who are only listening and not seeing it, I'm at a show with a bunch of people. There's about six or eight of us. And we're having a great time. That's one of my tribes. That's where I feel safe and comfortable. And part of going to a Grateful Dead concert is the music, of course, but a huge part of it is being with my tribe. Every single person who's either listening or watching this has the possibility of creating a tribe of people who love what you do. And Jason, you're doing that right now. By doing this show, you're creating a tribe. You're creating fans. And that's what we all have the opportunity to do when we focus on the humanity of what we do, as opposed to just trying to sell stuff.

- Yeah and, you know, to your point, David, this podcast is relatively new, but yet I've met perfect strangers at conferences and events who introduce themself and they say, "I listen to every episode."

- Right, right. It's great, isn't it? It's fantastic. It's fantastic and if you didn't focus on providing this service, this valuable information for free, that wouldn't happen. They wouldn't come up to you at those conferences or email you or send you a message on social media. That wouldn't happen.

- That's exactly right. Hey, with that, we're going to take a quick break and come back on the other side, more with David.

- [Narrator] You're listening to On Top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted adviser to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social, and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.

- Welcome back to On Top of PR. We're joined today with David Scott. David, welcome back. We're really enjoying the conversation here.

- Oh thanks, Jason, great to be here.

- Yeah, so during the break we talked for just a quick minute. You mentioned, you know, how important you think video is in the current marketing environment. Tell us a little bit more about your thoughts there.

- Sure, so video, what we're doing right now, those of you who are watching this on video, is super interesting because of a couple of different aspects that go into neuroscience. So let me share with you … what we're doing here on video, and if you're not actually watching this on video, but you're actually listening only, we've got sort of head-and-shoulders shots, both Jason and I do. Sometimes we're both on the screen. Sometimes it's just one of us on the screen. So my daughter Reiko and I, when we were researching "Fanocracy" and how and why people become fans of something, we interviewed a number of different neuroscientists to find out what's going on in our brain when we become fans of something. And one of the neuroscientists whose work we did research on is a guy called Edward T. Hall. He lived in the, he was practicing in the 1950s and '60s, and he identified the importance of how close or far away you are from other humans and how that leads to really, really powerful human emotions. So it turns out, the closer you get to someone, the more powerful the shared emotions. And he identified several different levels of what he called proximity. Farther than about 12 feet, we know people are 12 feet or farther away from us, but we don't begin to pay that much attention to them. Between 12 feet and about 4 feet, he called social space, and we know people who are in our social space, we, our brains, we can't help it, begin to track people. So if you are walking down the street, when people become within about 12 feet, you begin to track them. Inside of 4 feet, he called personal space. That's where the most powerful shared emotions happen. So if you know somebody and they're within 4 feet, super, super powerful on the positive side. If you don't know them, if you're in a crowded New York City subway car, you can feel very negative emotions. So that's when you're in physical proximity and you might say to me: "But David, we're in a pandemic. We can't really get close to people." I would say that if you can figure out ways in your business to get close to people, that's a really good thing. So either now during the pandemic, if you can figure that out, or when we emerge from the pandemic. The more you can bring people together physically, the better. But there's another form of neuroscience called mirror neurons, which are super interesting when it comes to video. So mirror neurons are the part of our brains that fire when we see or even just hear somebody doing something, and our brains begin to fire as if we are doing that activity ourself. And I'd like to demonstrate that for you right now. I'm going to demonstrate it with a lemon and a slice of lemon. Now, if I take a bite of this lemon, it's super powerful and my brain begins to fire. Let me do that now. Wow, and I can feel it on my lips and on my tongue and my eyes kind of close up a little bit. And I'm, my eyes are a little, watering a little bit. Biting into a lemon is super powerful. My brain is firing like crazy, but because of the power of mirror neurons, your brains are firing too, even if you're just hearing me bite into a lemon. Jason, are you feeling the lemon?

- [Jason] I feel like I'm watching a magic, a magician here, but yes.

- Right, isn't that crazy? Now here's what's really interesting about video when it comes to this idea of mirror neurons. So you're watching, if you're watching me and Jason, you're watching us, you feel, through mirror neurons, as if we're actually in the same room. This is precisely why you feel you know a movie star personally, even though you know intellectually you've never met them. Or a television star or a sports star that you see on TV. You feel you know them, but you don't know them. You've never met them. It's just your mirror neurons kicking in. So anybody who's listening in on this who wants to grow a business, even a fledgling new business, what a great PR technique, a great communications technique is to use video. And when you use that video, if you crop the video as if it's sort of head and shoulders, as if you're about four feet away from people, that personal space, their mirror neurons will kick in as if they're sitting across the table from you. Super, super powerful way to build fans.

- That's a great tip and technique. I'm sure our audience will take that note and execute it well, and then people wonder why, what the secret is to their videos being so great. So appreciate you sharing that, David. Two quick things as we're wrapping up. This was an interesting topic that I saw and wanted to ask you more about, which is why must companies let go of their creations in order to grow fans? You gave the example of Grateful Dead earlier, but what's going on with that, David?

- So I actually, this idea, I mentioned earlier, I co-wrote this book with my daughter – she's now 28 years old. When we first started researching, she was about 22. And she's a huge fan of Harry Potter. She's not only seen the movies multiple times and read all the books multiple times, but she actually wrote an 85,000-word alternative ending to the Harry Potter series. She wrote a novel, she put it up on a fan fiction site for free, and thousands and thousands of people have downloaded it. And she was talking to me about this idea of what's called fan fiction, which is when fans of a work create alternative works related to what they love and then share it with other people. You could also say something similar to that is people who play other bands' music, like there's hundreds of Grateful Dead cover bands around the country, for example. So the idea here is that when you create something, a product, a service, a piece of art, and you put it out into the world, it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the fans. So your job is to encourage people to do with it and talk about it in whatever way they want to and not to try to put restrictions on it. Now, there's a number of companies out there who try to restrict the way that people use a product or service or the way they talk about a product or service. I'll give you an example about Adobe. Adobe creates a number of different types of software, but one of them is called Photoshop and they have these extremely strict rules that you cannot use Photoshop as a verb. You cannot say you “photoshopped” something. You must say that you manipulated something using the Photoshop-trademark-R software. And by forcing people to do that and like rapping them on the knuckles if they do it the wrong way, you're not letting people become fans of your work. You're being the police, trying to get them to do something different. So my suggestion, strong suggestion, it really comes from Reiko and this idea of fan fiction and how people are communicating when they become a fan, they use the language that's important to them, and when you let that go, when you let go of your creations and you let the fans take over, it's much more likely to spread.

- Yeah, that's well said, that's well said. I'm sure that what they're trying to do is protect their copyright, just like Coke doesn't want you to call it Coke, right? They want you to call it soda and that they're Coca-Cola, right?

- But here's the thing. You're probably right, but here's the thing. There's a number of different people who are, and, you know, job functions that are part of a company. The legal perspective is but one perspective in a company. If you let your legal people drive the way you communicate, you will fail.

- [Jason] That's right.

- Your public relations program will fail if you let the lawyers drive it. No question about it. I've seen it hundreds of times. You've probably seen it too, Jason, with the work you do with your clients. Communications is about a human relationship with people. It's not something that should be driven by the legal people.

- Yeah, a cliche I like to share is if attorneys had it their way, you would lock the doors and keep all customers and all employees out of the building. But then you, really, then you would just have a building and not a company, right?

- Yeah, it's, well, that's right. I mean, I've, gosh, I've seen this so many times. The lawyers just like clamp down and: "No, you can't do that. No, you can't do that. No, you can't do that." Well, I want to build fans, and you, you know, I don't want – you're a lawyer. I don't try to get into your business and read your contracts and tell you why they're wrong. Why are you getting in my business, telling me why my communications programs are wrong? Now, I'm being overly dramatic here a little bit, sure; you need to, you need to make sure you're not doing anything illegal, but trying to clamp down your copyright is absolutely putting hamper on the number of people who become your fans.

- Very true, David. All right, so one last question. Maybe it's a two-part question about, you know, why is passion infectious? We might have covered that already a little bit. And then how do employees' passion build fans as well?

- So one of the most surprising things that my daughter Reiko and I learned when we were researching this book, "Fanocracy," and we did the research starting about five years ago. The book actually came out in 2020. It hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. The research we did was we talked with hundreds of people about what they're a fan of. Jason, I know you're a fan of Apple and Tesla and the Florida Gators. I'm a fan of the Grateful Dead and surfing and the Apollo lunar program, among other things. Reiko's a fan of Korean pop music and Harry Potter. And everyone, they open up when you ask them what they're a fan of. At the same time, we spoke with hundreds of companies that have built fans. I've shared a couple of them, the Grateful Dead and Duracell Batteries and so on. But one of the most surprising things we learned is the importance of passion, of people's passion, of the passion of the employees who work at your company. And it turns out that, again, this idea of humanizing a company, because we all want to be part of a tribe of like-minded people, we people are attracted to passion and they're attracted to people who are passionate about things in their private life. Now, what I notice so often is that people put a brick wall between the things they love to do – "Oh my gosh, I love to, like, do this surfing" – and then the things that are focused on their business, "Oh my gosh, I've got to be the very upscale business person." But I think breaking down those walls, we've learned this by researching hundreds of different companies and people, when you break down those walls, you find people who have passion and that drive so much interest among people who want to do business with you. Let me give you two examples. The first one comes from my daughter Reiko. She's now an emergency room doctor at Boston Medical Center. And as we're doing this recording, Jason, it's tough, you know? COVID is really out there. And not only are there a number of different patients in her emergency room who suffer from COVID, but there's also doctors and nurses who are out because of COVID, so they're short-staffed. And she and her colleagues are wearing personal protective gear, PPE, from head to toe. They've got on sort of a cap, they've got on a mask, they've got on a shield, they've got gloves, they've got, you know, clothing all the way, head to toe. And so when they enter an emergency room, basically the only thing of humanity you see are their eyes. And she said to me, "Daddy, people are scared, and I walk in and I look like an alien." What she and her colleagues learned is that when they share something that they're a fan of, people come alive. So Reiko started by putting pins on her doctor uniform. She has pins of the things she loves. She has a Black Lives Matter pin, she has a rainbow pin. She sometimes wears a mask with the Boston Bruins on it and people would just come alive and they'd like, smile, "Oh my gosh, you're a Boston Bruins fan, just like I am." They got to the point where they created sweatshirts for the people who worked there. And it said "Team BMC" for Boston Medical Center. And they were in the form of the logos of local sports teams, the Boston Celtics and the Boston Bruins, Boston Red Sox, New England Patriots, and people would just come alive. This is great, you know, it's like, imagine if you were in the emergency room and some, the doctor walked in with a sweatshirt with a Florida Gators, I mean like, wow, that's great. So this idea of being, sharing what you're passionate about has nothing to do with being a doctor. It has to do with being a human, and that builds fans. Let me give you one more example, related example. I speak at all of Tony Robbins’ Business Mastery Events around the world – they've been virtual last couple years – but I've been doing that since 2008. And I was sharing this idea of passion and fandom at an event recently. It was about two years ago and I met a dentist. His name is Dr. Jon Marashi, and Dr. Marashi said to me, "David, I'm a dentist. I mean, how can I build fans? People don't become fans of their dentist." And I said, "Well, Dr. Marashi, maybe they, maybe they will and maybe there can – what do you love to do?" And he said, "Oh my God, I love to skateboard." And so I said, "Why don't you do something with skateboarding?" And so he actually ran with that idea. Here's what he did. He put skateboards on the wall of his dental practice. He skateboards from one examination room to another. On his website, he has pictures of him skateboarding. He created an Instagram where there's some image, there's some Instagram images and videos of dentist stuff, but there's also a number of them about skateboarding. And when I met him, he had almost no followers on Instagram. He's got nearly 30,000 followers now. He contacted me a couple of months ago and said, "David, you're not going to know, you're not going to believe the results. I've done the metrics. I've learned that I've grown my number of new patients by 30% and the revenue of my dental practice by 23% solely based on the fact that I share my passion for skateboarding, because people love the fact that I'm the skateboarding dentist." And they share with their friends and he gets more referrals. And people say, "If I've got a choice of 25 dentists within driving distance of my house in Southern California, what do I want? The 24 boring ones that have the picture on the wall of them getting their graduation ceremony at dental school? Or the guy with the skateboard on the wall?" And these aren't even people who skateboard. They're just people who are attracted to Dr. Marashi's passion. So this idea of passion, again, the most surprising thing we learned when we researched the book "Fanocracy," what it means here is by sharing what you're passionate about in your private life, you're making yourself more human. And in these days, so, you know, the first question you asked me, I talked about how social media is less humanizing now, it's more polarizing. The more you can humanize yourself, the more fans you will make.

- Yeah, that's interesting that you mentioned that because, one, I'm hearing you say very clearly, "Authenticity is key," number one. Number two, I, you know, I even hesitated to share about the Florida Gators just because of the diversity or, you know, the people, you know, tend to have their rivalries and things like that. But also, you're reminding me, you know, I was recently on a trip with my daughter and one question icebreaker I like to bring up is, say, you know, say you were going to go get a tattoo. What would you get, right? And then usually that kind of brings out what people are passionate about and things like that. So, you know, for example, speaking of skateboarding, you know, I grew up as a skate rad and was, you know, really into it and so, you know, I told my daughter when we were on the cruise that, you know, if I had to get a tattoo, I'd probably get, you know, something from like the '80s related to skateboarding or something like that.

- Oh, that's super cool.

- Yeah Bones Brigade logo or something like that.

- Oh, that's super cool. Well, you should check out Dr. Jon Marashi. Just do a Google search. J-O-N Marashi, M-A-R-A-S-H-I. Because he's done exactly that. I don’t know if he has the tattoo, but he's totally focused on … reestablishing this idea that, of what he did when he was a kid and his love of skateboarding. You know, this is what humanizes us. People want to do business with people that they enjoy, and they enjoy people who are passionate about life, passionate about the things they love. And you know what's interesting? The Florida Gators thing. You know … I asked Reiko: "You wear a Boston Bruins sweatshirt. What happens if it's a New York Islanders fan?" She said: "They love it, Daddy. They love it. They love the fact that I'm a hockey fan. They love the fact that I'm not just a doctor, that I've got things I love personally." So I bet if you did start to focus on the Gators, that even if they are a fan of the rival team, they will still appreciate the fact that you're a rabid fan.

- Yeah, the authenticity is legit. I appreciate that. So, David, if our audience is interested in reaching you and building on this conversation, in addition to the links we'll put in the episode notes to your books, how should they get ahold of you?

- So I use my middle name professionally. My name is David Meerman, M-E-E-R-M-A-N, Scott, S-C-O-T-T. Google that name. I'm the only person in the world with that name, so you will find me. On most of the social networks, I am dmscott, D-M-S-C-O-T-T. We've also got a great website at fanocracy.com, where we've got a bunch of videos and other information providing more details on some of the things I've shared today.

- Perfect. David, it was a pleasure to have you. Thank you for joining us and, to our audience who tuned in today, this is just one of the many ways we work hard to keep you on top of PR. If you enjoyed this episode, do us a favor and share it with a colleague or a friend who you know would benefit from watching it. Otherwise, this is Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations signing off, thanking you for tuning in. Be well.