Insights on the world of AI and human-centric ways to utilize it for business strategies.
Tune in to learn more!
Our guest
Our episode guest is Leslie Cafferty, chief communications officer at Booking Holdings Inc., the world's largest global travel company. She’s also the executive sponsor for the company’s employee resource group dedicated to equality and equity for women across the organization. Booking Holdings Inc. brands include Booking.com, Priceline, OpenTable, Kayak, and Agoda.
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the episode here:
5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:
- Differentiating marketing and communications in business
- Strategies to help with the rising cost of labor and doing business
- Tips for aspiring chief communication officers
- Evolving trends in communications
- The importance of diversity in communications and business
About Leslie Cafferty
A 20-year tech company veteran with a passion for communications, marketing, and promoting more diversity in business, Leslie Cafferty is the senior vice president and chief communications officer for Booking Holdings, Inc., the world’s largest global travel company, known for brands such as Priceline, Booking.com, Kayak, OpenTable, and Agoda. Cafferty oversees all corporate, financial, brand, crisis, CEO, executive, and internal communications initiatives for the company, which operates in more than 200 countries. She’s also the executive sponsor for the company’s employee resource group dedicated to equality and equity for women across the organization.
Previously, Cafferty was the global vice president of marketing and communications at Nielsen, the world’s leading global research company. Before Nielsen, she spent eight years as the director of global communications for IAC, a leading internet company operating more than 25 market-leading digital brands. She attended Harvard Business School and graduated magna cum laude from Lehigh University with a degree in international relations.
She lives in Greenwich, Connecticut, with her husband and three children. An avid global traveler, she’s been to 69 countries to date and spends her spare time anywhere in the world on her quest to see it all.
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to share it with a colleague or friend. You may also share your experience with others by leaving us a quick podcast review.
Quotables
- “The art of what we do is storytelling. You could be writing a speech for a CEO, messaging points for a lawsuit, or sharing a consumer product story. That’s art. You have to think creatively.” — @Leslie Cafferty
- “Rising tide floats all boats. More data out there about travel, booking travel, and best practices probably inspire someone to want to go on a trip.” — @Jason Mudd
- “It’s all about collaboration with the business. Communications is not seen anymore as just a subset of marketing — we have a seat at the table in leadership meetings.” — @Leslie Cafferty
- “Anything you say can create or destroy value in seconds. Our role and expertise is about doing more creating than destroying.” — @Leslie Cafferty
- “The skills, talents, and responsibilities haven’t changed, just the tools, platform, and speed at which you can communicate with your audience has increased, therefore making every move you make more critical and potentially vulnerable.” — @Jason Mudd
Resources
Additional Episode Resources:
- Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR podcast.
- Find out more about Axia Public Relations.
Episode highlights
[04:58] Be the ears to the ground for the business. Good communication means listening.
[11:02] A multidimensional approach blending narrative art with data science
[19:20] Communications serves a purpose beyond marketing — preparing aspiring chief communications officers
[25:01] Work smarter, not harder: how communications professionals accomplish the same output despite the rising cost of doing business.
[30:34] Anything you say can create or destroy value: how communications can drive business ROI
[44:28] Bonus: top travel tip!
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Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:29
Announcer
Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd, presented by ReviewMaxer.
00:00:09:29 - 00:00:16:00
Jason
Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I'm Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. I've joined with me today Lesley Cafferty.
00:00:16:02 - 00:00:47:13
Jason
she is the senior vice president and chief communications officer for Booking Holdings, the world's largest global travel company responsible for overseeing all corporate, financial, brand prices, CEO, executive and internal communication initiatives for the company, which has operations in more than 200 countries worldwide. Well, that's a lot of responsibility, Leslie. in addition, she serves as the executive sponsor for the company's employee resource group dedicated to equality and equity for women across the organization.
00:00:47:15 - 00:00:57:03
Jason
She's a 20 year tech veteran with a passion for communications, marketing and promoting more diversity in business. Leslie, welcome to the show.
00:00:57:05 - 00:00:59:27
Leslie
Thanks for having me, Jason. Glad to be here.
00:01:00:00 - 00:01:23:10
Jason
I am glad to be here, too. it looks like prior to boarding our excuse me book to booking holdings, you served as a global vice president of marketing communication at Nielsen, the world's leading global research company. Before Nielsen, you spent eight years as the director of global communications at IAC, a leading and internet company operating more than 25 leading digital brands.
00:01:23:11 - 00:01:50:03
Jason
That's awesome. And you attended Harvard Business School and previously gradually Magnum to lobby from, Lehigh University with a degree in international relations. That's, very impressive. Well qualified. Glad to have you on the show. you currently live in Greenwich, Connecticut, with your husband and three children. You're an avid, avid traveler, hitting 69 countries to date. and in her spare time, you can be found anywhere in the world on a quest to see it all.
00:01:50:04 - 00:01:51:21
Jason
That sounds like me.
00:01:51:23 - 00:01:59:08
Leslie
Yeah. It's, I've got a lot left to go. Every time I think I'm making progress, I remind and remind myself how much more there is to do.
00:01:59:08 - 00:02:19:02
Jason
But. Yeah. Right, right. Well, I don't know many people who have been to 69 countries. I think that I will go to eight, this calendar year, which feels like a lot for me and hopefully just the beginning of many more. Yeah. Well, we're here today to talk about the integrated, integral role of communications to business success.
00:02:19:05 - 00:02:33:28
Jason
and, glad you're here to talk about that. I think we'll cover probably some other topics, tips and trends along the way. So, Leslie, let's get started. Tell me a little bit about what you perceive to be the integral role of communications to being successful in business.
00:02:34:00 - 00:02:50:24
Leslie
Yeah, I think, you know, it's really been a journey watching it over the years. You know, I studied international relations, as you said. So I had no idea this is what I was going to do for a living. I was young and studying and like many people, sort of fell into it, but it's really it's evolved so much.
00:02:50:24 - 00:03:12:11
Leslie
I think, you know, my early years starting out at a big tech company, you know, it was it was a it was a function companies had, but it didn't really have a seat at the table. communications wasn't necessarily involved in critical business decisions. And that was just changed so much. Now I look at companies who really, really value, I think communications.
00:03:12:12 - 00:03:34:12
Leslie
You know, if it's if you're good at communications, your team is good. You sort of hovering over the organization and you can see things and connect the dots and pieces and put pieces together. So, you know, if, something as small as your legal team wants to change a clause in a contract because I've, I don't know, law changed or your product team wants to change something.
00:03:34:15 - 00:04:00:09
Leslie
Every decision you make in business can have very public repercussions, repercussions that you didn't expect or didn't intend. And so I think where the function is really valued now is to be able to look across the board and say, hey, have we thought about this? If we do that, this could possibly happen. And so there's really it's evolved from being, you know, send this message out to helping businesses when they make decisions about, you know, across the spectrum of functions.
00:04:00:11 - 00:04:19:14
Jason
I totally agree. So what you're describing is what I would call more of like a trusted advisor. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think we've been in the business long enough that, we can recall a season where, you know, that's really what people in our line of work were asking for was the opportunity to be that seat at the table, to be that trusted advisor.
00:04:19:14 - 00:04:43:01
Jason
And one thing I advise my clients all the time is you can't be that trusted advisor if you are the one, you know, managing and producing all the deliverables and overseeing all the tactics and and all that, you really want to elevate your position as a trusted advisor by being available and having the schedule and the opportunity to be there, to be able to guide and lead, as opposed to being in a meeting and trying to quickly get to the next thing you've got to do.
00:04:43:04 - 00:05:02:09
Leslie
Yeah, absolutely. I think there's really, there's a component to it as well. You know, we think of communication as a one way. You know, our job is to communicate or craft a message and send it out. But there's such an important other component which is the listening element of it. Right? So it's our job to listen what is what pop culture talking about these days.
00:05:02:12 - 00:05:23:06
Leslie
what are what's happening geopolitically. All of what's happening with our employees, what's their sentiment, what do they think about, you know, and so you have to listen and you can take everything you're hearing being ears to the ground. And then really help advise the business. So I think, yeah, you're totally right. But it's it's definitely that two way street that I think is a really important function that we play.
00:05:23:08 - 00:05:43:18
Jason
I love that because so much of communication, good communication is listening. but I don't know. That's something that we're taught in college or even in our first entry level job. but, you know, the longer I'm in business, the more I really value it. And so, you know, you want to look to make sure, you know, it's interesting with the tools we have, we talked about AI before we press record.
00:05:43:18 - 00:06:05:15
Jason
But, you know, when we do a conference call and, a video call it, the individual say, you know, who spoke and how long they spoke and all that, and it's always interesting to see who spoke the most and who spoke the least. And, you know, sometimes it gives me an opportunity to to encourage a team member to be like, hey, you probably shouldn't be the most quiet person on this call, or you probably should have been the most quiet person on this call.
00:06:05:21 - 00:06:26:05
Jason
yeah, on the topic and and the the talent that's on the call kind of thing. So for example, or, you know, if you're doing a, if you have time with the CEO, probably that time is best spent with she or he doing the talking. Right. Because that's a limited opportunity to, to hear directly from leadership what they're trying to accomplish.
00:06:26:07 - 00:06:38:19
Jason
unless the meeting is a little bit different where you're reporting up, you know, some valuable information. I remember one time I was watching, listening to a sports radio show, and the, host of the show kept talking.
00:06:38:19 - 00:06:43:14
Jason
Meanwhile, they had the most recent Heisman Trophy winner as a special guest on the show.
00:06:43:14 - 00:06:53:06
Jason
And unfortunately, you know, they were just talking away instead of, you know, taking the opportunity to help the, out or get the information out of the guest who was the most newsworthy element.
00:06:53:06 - 00:06:53:18
Jason
So,
00:06:53:18 - 00:07:01:29
Leslie
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think you probably never want to be the person speaking the most or the least. probably somewhere in the middle would be best.
00:07:02:02 - 00:07:21:07
Jason
Absolutely. That's a good pearl of wisdom. And one that I think is really important that, we pass on to, you know, as mentors to our team, especially the more junior and entry level people for them to really understand. So, you know, sometimes they get nervous and they talk a lot, or they want to be participatory and, just depends on the environment.
00:07:21:07 - 00:07:32:06
Jason
I think that we're in. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Leslie, tell me, what are you working on right now that's, got you excited about, your organization and your role at the company.
00:07:32:08 - 00:07:51:13
Leslie
what are we working on? Well, there's so many things that get me excited. I think one of us travel. It's a very exciting, time for travel. The world is traveling more than ever, so it's generally just high energy. and there's a ton going on in the space. I think, you know, we are not really a travel company as much as we're truly a tech company.
00:07:51:13 - 00:08:07:27
Leslie
So we're the technology that connects people to the experiences and the trips that they want to have. and, you know, technology is changing at a rate that I think in 20 years of working in tech, I've never seen the pace of innovation in technology moves so quickly. It's almost like when we, you know, think about a new tech innovation.
00:08:07:29 - 00:08:22:24
Leslie
By the time we're done implementing it, the next best thing is out. So just working in a high energy environment is a lot of fun working. That's why I love working in tech. I took two years since kind of away from it at Nielsen, and then came right back to tap because it is so fast paced. It's just faster than ever before.
00:08:22:24 - 00:08:41:09
Leslie
But there's again, going back to our chat before we hit record. I think for us in communications, it's also really exciting. you know, yes, we've, you know, use technology and software and but we're not you know, I work around like hard for people that code all day. And, you know, we're not that but it gives some of the technology.
00:08:41:09 - 00:09:02:06
Leslie
You know, I really gives access to people who haven't studied and lived in tech, creating tech, the opportunity to really get in yourself and see what technology the tools are so easy. So I think from a communications perspective, I'm sure you know, you I listen to some of your other, interviews. You know, it's a hot topic, but how can we leverage the technology?
00:09:02:08 - 00:09:22:06
Leslie
to make what we do even better? And how do we do that safely? How do we do that quickly, but not typically. That make you make mistakes. You know, we're still a public company, so you have to be very careful of everything you do and say. But it's really, really exciting. So we've created across our businesses, just within comms we have a million other for other parts of businesses that a task force where we're bringing back learnings.
00:09:22:06 - 00:09:27:19
Leslie
What have you tested, what have you tested, what's work? Where do you see risk. And so that's a really exciting opportunity for us.
00:09:27:19 - 00:09:36:03
Jason
To very cool. what kind of tools are you enjoying using or currently experimenting with or might recommend to our audience?
00:09:36:06 - 00:09:56:18
Leslie
So we have, we build a lot of our tools internally. So we'll take, you know, some of the, the LM systems out there, but then augment it with our own data. And so I think the business right now is priority is really building consumer facing products. Right. How do we augment what we do for consumers and our partners with with gen AI?
00:09:56:18 - 00:10:13:12
Leslie
But I think where I see a ton of opportunity and where we're starting to test now is how do we build our own universe or database? you know, I've been with the company ten years, and when I look back for anything that we're doing, what did we say back in 2000 on, you know, that case or what did we say?
00:10:13:12 - 00:10:31:12
Leslie
What was our core marketing message in this market that year that really worked? So in and of itself, we spend so much time in our own data looking for things to help inform. So we created a database, right? Just for us that has everything that we need in it. From a an execution standpoint, I think we can make our team so much more efficient.
00:10:31:15 - 00:10:46:04
Leslie
I think we do the same thing from a measurement perspective, constantly looking back and benchmarking ourselves. We have systems and processes, but I think Gen I can speed that up, save the time that we spend on things like measurement, make it better and make it a fraction of the time. So those are some of the early things we're looking at.
00:10:46:04 - 00:10:55:28
Leslie
We're already using it for content creation for our, you know, in social media. and I think those are the next big areas that we're looking at.
00:10:56:01 - 00:11:14:13
Jason
In, our original communication, I saw where, you, have a multidimensional approach, which includes blending narrative art with data science. And I think we're just kind of starting to talk a little bit about that. tell me more about, your innovative approach and, and why that's important to you.
00:11:14:15 - 00:11:35:28
Leslie
Yeah. So I think, you know, we are a truly data driven company. Data is in our DNA and sort of, you know, nobody makes a decision in the business without it being backed by data. So you take that and then you merge it with something like communications, where, you know, since the dawn of our industry, people have talked about, you know, what's the ROI, how do you measure that?
00:11:35:28 - 00:11:56:08
Leslie
And there, you know, we can have a whole separate podcast on measurement. but it's, it's, you know, there are sort of softer elements to it. So there are certain things that we can measure, but there are things that we can't measure. But either way, whether it's making a decision about a financial investment in a campaign initiative, how many languages we translate something into for, you know, everything's based on data.
00:11:56:08 - 00:12:12:18
Leslie
So our team, you know, we're not allowed to use the excuse of, oh, we can't measure it. So we have to have faith. Every decision we make should have some form of data behind it. That can serve as a discussion point for how we make that decision. However, at the end of the day, the art in what we do is storytelling.
00:12:12:24 - 00:12:23:05
Leslie
And you know, you can be writing a speech for a CEO. Or you could be, you know, writing, messaging points on a lawsuit or regulatory issue or telling your consumer product story. But at the end of the day,
00:12:23:05 - 00:12:41:09
Leslie
that's art. You have to know how to write. You have to think creatively. So we encourage both. But we are very, very focused on data as well, making sure that we make smart decisions and decisions that we can sort of measure incremental ROI and ensure that how we're investing our time and money is improving.
00:12:41:11 - 00:12:42:06
Leslie
over time.
00:12:42:15 - 00:12:54:03
Jason
Perfect. I love that. you mentioned measurement. Let's talk about that for a second. tell me some of the ways that you guys are currently measuring, your communications.
00:12:54:05 - 00:13:13:21
Leslie
Yeah, it's I mean, it's a constant evolution. You know, I challenge our team to every year to say, you know, learn, test, try new things. If we're not learning, if we're not changing, you know, in any function, you become irrelevant. So we look at this all the time. I was actually, in London with my team in London a few weeks ago.
00:13:13:24 - 00:13:29:14
Leslie
we spent a day on this looking at it, but, I mean, a few of the things that we look at, we have a basic ROI metric that we use, which is, you know, we're going to invest in a consumer campaign and it costs X amount, you know, what are we getting for that? The cost divided by, you know, the number.
00:13:29:14 - 00:13:43:21
Leslie
And then you can wait it for the higher quality results in, you know, your top tier publications versus, you know, a lower. So we have a weighting algorithm. And then we, we look at something and we say now every investment for a campaign, what do we predict the ROI is going to be on that. And how do we do that.
00:13:43:21 - 00:14:02:14
Leslie
We look at the data from past campaigns. What were they focused on? What did they achieve? Certain things resonate in certain markets. So that's kind of one very basic. So I can't always tell my executive how many bookings we got from a campaign generated, you know, a thousand pieces of coverage for us globally. But I can say I can look and make them better and more cost effective every year.
00:14:02:14 - 00:14:22:08
Leslie
So that's one thing we look at on the social side of things, which, becomes is evermore, you know, a component and channel that we're using. You can measure clicks back to your website. Of course, you can then measure conversion. So we work a lot with our internal teams to make tracking systems around to understand when we can bring traffic in, how we're looking at that.
00:14:22:10 - 00:14:45:24
Leslie
those are just a few. I think of the basic examples, things I'm allergic to, some things, and maybe more traditional in our space. a tool that just tells me blindly, like what reach was is not really that interesting. And I don't know that if challenged by the data gurus at our company, that I can stand behind truly believing where that comes from.
00:14:45:27 - 00:15:00:27
Leslie
What is it? People really see it just because it landed on a website. So there are tools out there that I see a lot. We actually probably use some of the more traditional metrics less, than we do some of the things that I was just talking about before.
00:15:00:27 - 00:15:27:07
Jason
something you said that, kind of caught my attention earlier as well, was just kind of talking about how, I thought was important for our audience that maybe you share a little bit more background about the organization, specifically the brands that your organization that you and your organization are responsible for, because I bet are listeners or probably, you know, regular users of those and may not realize based on your company name what those organizations are.
00:15:27:09 - 00:15:53:25
Leslie
That's a great point. yeah. So Booking Holdings, probably doesn't resonate, with many listeners, but you probably do know our brand. So we, you know, we say we're the largest travel company. You know, we're an online travel company, a digital travel company, a tech company. but our brands include Priceline, which anyone in the US, if you're my age, would know and remember from, you know, probably the William Shatner days.
00:15:53:27 - 00:16:11:25
Leslie
I did a lot, a lot, Booking.com is actually our largest brand. it's a similar it's an online travel brand. It started, it was based. It still is based in Amsterdam. So it is the largest European, equivalent at some of the US brands that, you know, now is a global brand, very, very large. And that's that's the majority of our presence.
00:16:11:25 - 00:16:36:22
Leslie
But we also own kayak. We have open table, dining reservations, which I hope everyone has at least used once or twice before. and Agoda is our main brand in Asia, so mostly travel focused, but we have OpenTable dining in there and our consumer facing brands that we're platform businesses that we have very important, you know, B2B side of things with all of our hotel partners and flight partners and travel partners,
00:16:36:25 - 00:17:01:22
Jason
kayak and OpenTable or two of my most frequently used apps on my phone. So, oh, I'm definitely, a regular and, you know, it's those are both very helpful tools, especially when you're traveling or just leave leading a busy on the go lifestyle. so much easier to do those kind of things. There's still some things when it comes to booking travel I still like to do in front of my traditional computer.
00:17:01:24 - 00:17:14:09
Jason
but sometimes you don't have that privilege or that opportunity. And, and so those are definitely, tools in my toolbox for, you know, exploring new markets or entertaining, entertaining friends and family.
00:17:14:11 - 00:17:35:07
Leslie
I that's great to hear. And I'm totally with you, because I remember when we started investing in mobile and it became what I don't remember what year was, but it became like a pivotal moment of investment. So companies said who on earth can ever plan, you know, goes in obtaining a vacation on an app? And of course, now I get myself saying that because that's how good the technologies become that you actually can do it.
00:17:35:07 - 00:17:42:01
Leslie
But back, you know, there was a time when it was definitely and I'm with you, there are still some things where you still like a screen.
00:17:42:03 - 00:17:52:22
Jason
Yeah, absolutely. All right. With that, we're going to take a quick break and come back with more with Leslie as we talk about, additional topics that I think you would be interested in, as part of our audience.
00:17:52:22 - 00:18:17:10
Announcer
You're listening to On Top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted advisor to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.
00:18:17:10 - 00:18:29:12
Jason
Welcome back to On Top of PR. I’m your host, Jason Mudd, joined by Leslie Cafferty. And we are talking more about, communications and with, travel and tech type companies, that Leslie is leading, their communication.
00:18:29:14 - 00:18:47:25
Jason
Leslie, you are currently a chief communications officer. tell us a little bit more about, that role. Maybe somebody, in our listening audience is not super familiar with it or is considering creating that position or desires to be in that role. What advice and input would you give to them?
00:18:47:28 - 00:19:07:09
Leslie
Yeah. So, I mean, I think one, it's great that the role exists. You know, I think if you look for this role 20 years ago, it wouldn't be a very common title that you'd see, you know, on a company's leadership page. you would certainly see things like chief marketing officer and then sometimes you would have a comms, you know, director or VP under that.
00:19:07:12 - 00:19:25:26
Leslie
And the evolution over the years, you know, I'm seeing comes in and marketing has to work hand in hand a lot. But the evolution of it that I'm seeing is that, the business sees that there's value beyond just supporting marketing, that communications can actually support the entirety of the business. So more and more, you're seeing it sort of come out, stand on its own.
00:19:25:28 - 00:19:44:13
Leslie
And now more and more seeing chief communications officer title. So I think that's great for the industry. I think it's a testament to how valuable, you know, communications work is and how we can contribute to the business. So in terms of how to prepare for it, I think, you know, it's I would say gone are the days where, you know, a company had a message.
00:19:44:15 - 00:20:03:05
Leslie
And so you just put it in a press release. We sent it. And then you could exist behind closed doors as a company. You didn't have to, you know, do anything further. But that's change. We talked a little bit about earlier. The role now is very much listening as much as it is communicating. So you know, what you're communicating ideally is, you know, right in tone, not tone deaf.
00:20:03:08 - 00:20:20:14
Leslie
but it's so different now. You know, it's a rarely do. I mean, we still use press releases, but you have to get your communications out to so many different other channels. You're not just talking to the media, you're talking to regulators, you're talking to your customers. You're talking to your supplier partners. You're talking to your employees. You're talking to your customers.
00:20:20:14 - 00:20:40:17
Leslie
So I think the spectrum of, you know, who we're talking to is more than ever before. And I think the other thing to prepare for is you're, you know, interested in the past, is the, the intensity of it. And, you know, there's risk. And when you have to make decisions in real time on what to say to this monitor or your company.
00:20:40:19 - 00:20:59:06
Leslie
But it's really exciting. I love doing it. You know, we'll sit in a room and just share ideas and, you know, you have to work on deadline, you know, and so but it comes with, you know, risk reward. And it's definitely a high energy, high intensity, career, which I love and thrive on. But. And you do too.
00:20:59:09 - 00:21:26:26
Jason
That's great. That's great. so, Leslie, tell me, do you ever have a situation where, perhaps, do you ever have a situation, maybe not at your company, per se, but just kind of in the role of of chief communication officer. Do you feel like, with that title that, communication is, is viewed independently from marketing, or does it still feel like a little bit of a subset of marketing?
00:21:26:26 - 00:21:29:19
Jason
And, what would be your thoughts there?
00:21:29:21 - 00:21:44:11
Leslie
Yeah. So I think, you know, we have to work. We work hand-in-hand with our marketing team. And the marketing team says the overarching, you know what? Who are we as a company? What's our mission? What do we stand for? you know, how do we want to present to consumers? How do we want to present to the industry?
00:21:44:11 - 00:22:06:28
Leslie
And so I think they set the tone for that. And we very much I mean, as you know, a company is one voice. It's not many voices, and you have to be 100% consistent. So I think marketing does a really great job of setting the tone for how you want to reach your stakeholders and your consumers, but within that, the skill set is very different because I think, again, if you look at marketing, a lot of marketing can be a predetermined message.
00:22:07:00 - 00:22:26:11
Leslie
This is what we want to say. And then you can advertise, you know, you can put that out there how you want that to look. Whereas our world is a little bit different and our skill is less creating, you know, the perfect marketing message that we can put on a channel. And it's more that two way conversation. So we have to be prepared for this is what we want to say.
00:22:26:17 - 00:22:41:06
Leslie
But that's what the world is saying back to us. So how do we nuance that and how do we? So I think we work hand-in-hand with marketing all the time. but we also work with other parts of the business. And I think it is that recognition that there is a distinct skill set, one is certainly not better than the other.
00:22:41:06 - 00:22:51:19
Leslie
They're just very they're different skill sets. And so I think recognition of that distinct skill, skill set, skill sets, distinct skill sets, is is important.
00:22:51:21 - 00:23:10:08
Jason
Sure. We talked about how you have many brands under the umbrella there. give me a sense of kind of what your organization or department, how it's structured. do you have, for example, a vice president under you that is for the kayak brand or how how is that structured?
00:23:10:11 - 00:23:30:04
Leslie
Yes. So every single one of the brands has their own sort of head of communication for the brand. and that will vary a little bit. It's a very senior role. Just depending on the brand. The size is very different but also reflective of the size of the company. So the Booking.com team is the largest team, about 65 I think.
00:23:30:07 - 00:23:47:09
Leslie
kayak, OpenTable a little bit smaller, Priceline smaller and go to on the smaller side. But that's all reflective of sort of the markets, a number of markets that they need to operate in. You know, if you're a U.S brand, you you don't need more than English language skill set on your communications team. Right. Com as a global brand.
00:23:47:09 - 00:24:09:23
Leslie
So we need multiple languages. So they're structured differently. They're allowed to sort of operate independently. They they all will ultimately report into the book. And holding's business. But they can operate independently. But we do a lot of one of the benefits to the companies we can share of learnings and best practices from across. So my corporate team will also help and booking holdings help facilitate that, to make sure that we can share knowledge across businesses and brands.
00:24:09:23 - 00:24:28:14
Leslie
And while they can operate independently, there are certain things that we will always have to weigh in on crisis situations. We'll always review major campaigns, things like that. So it's a nice kind of hybrid collaboration of independents, but the opportunity to have access to a large peer set for all of our network?
00:24:28:16 - 00:24:45:26
Jason
Yeah. That's great. So, I started thinking, as you were talking just now, a little bit about, for lack of better word, kind of, compensation in the environment. We've been in where, staffing, supply and demand has gone up and down since the pandemic. The cost of doing business has increased. The cost of living is increased.
00:24:45:28 - 00:24:59:00
Jason
what are some strategies that you're doing and you might recommend to your colleagues to kind of help with the rising cost of labor and the rising cost of doing business? How how is your organization kind of adopted? those things.
00:24:59:02 - 00:25:17:21
Leslie
Yes, absolutely. I think that, you know, the cost of doing business is going up, which gets back to, you know, we have to be smarter. You have to work smarter because you can't, you know, you can't reduce your output. You can't reduce your impact. but you have to look at how you think about execution, which is why I do think technology will create a lot more efficiency.
00:25:17:21 - 00:25:42:21
Leslie
So if you can have technology do things faster for you in certain areas without necessarily costing you more, that frees up time to do other things better, right? So being more efficient with our time spent, we may not be able to hire, you know, 20% bigger staff for next year, but we'll have to figure out how to accomplish the same things, which is also where things like shared learnings, you know, we have with five major brands.
00:25:42:21 - 00:25:59:01
Leslie
If somebody tries something and it doesn't go well, we have the ability to say, hey, here's a case study. This didn't work right. And rather than having five teams go out and try all learn that it doesn't work and then pivot to something else. And I think it's just about how do you work smart? in this smart.
00:25:59:03 - 00:26:13:08
Jason
Well, speaking of having potentially five different teams try something. can you give an example of how maybe one team went and tried something and and what you're experience was with that versus having everybody try it all at one time?
00:26:13:10 - 00:26:38:03
Leslie
Sure. I think a really good example is sort of in the early years, we were looking at how to do things on a, on a tight budget and how we didn't have a ton of money for big campaigns. But how do we get out there? How do we get the our brands in the news? And I, I don't even remember which one at the time did, but we sort of found discovered the opportunity to leverage our own data.
00:26:38:03 - 00:26:59:20
Leslie
And, you know, the media loves data and insights. And so we realized as a company we sit on piles and mounds of it. So how can we actually take that data, create really interesting stories about what's trending and travel, things that are going on, share it out. Doesn't really cost a lot of money as our own data. It just requires someone to curated, put a story together, and we found we can generate a ton.
00:26:59:20 - 00:27:16:21
Leslie
And so that very quickly became a shared learning between our brands. And to this day, I'm sure somewhere, if you haven't, you will stumble upon something that says, you know, reporting to, booking or reporting a kayak. You know, 50 people, people are looking for this. So that was a really easy win. And funny enough, we all do compete with each other in a sense.
00:27:16:21 - 00:27:19:22
Leslie
You know, because Priceline once you know you're booking into the sky.
00:27:19:22 - 00:27:20:14
Jason
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:27:20:15 - 00:27:33:26
Leslie
But we've also come to learn that the pie is big enough that, you know when our when other companies and brands started sharing their data, it didn't mean that the other one couldn't get it anymore. There's an appetite there for it. So that was one good example of a shared learning one.
00:27:33:26 - 00:27:45:26
Jason
I think too a rising tide floats all boats. Right. So more data that's out there and more stories that are generated about traveling and booking traveling and best practices probably inspire someone to go, you know what, I want to go on a trip.
00:27:45:28 - 00:27:47:26
Leslie
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:27:47:29 - 00:28:09:17
Jason
And I think this is that's a really good, thought for our audience today is to consider what data do you have right now at your fingertips? That is valuable, outside of your organization. And sometimes it's, you know, you're not even looking at that data because you're looking at other data that's valuable internally. But externally, it could make a really good story line or something like that.
00:28:09:24 - 00:28:28:26
Jason
I know we've helped many companies, mostly tech companies. I think about it, leverage data that they already have internally. That would be valuable, helpful or interesting to not only media, but general consumers, all around. Leslie, would you have any any tips for how to best go about doing something like that? How where to get started?
00:28:28:28 - 00:28:53:21
Leslie
Yeah, I think it's all about, it's all about, you know, collaboration with the business. And we talked about, you know, how communications just come out. It's not seen any more just as a subset of marketing and how, you know, we have, a seat at the table, and leadership meeting. So really, truly knowing because if you don't connect with your business, you know, I don't I didn't even know how much data we have until I took the initiative to go look for it.
00:28:53:27 - 00:29:14:14
Leslie
And it's funny because what I did and I went to the business, I said, show me data. I want to see what data sets do we have? And then they shared things back like, this is amazing. This is cool. That's interesting. And I'm like, yes, this is what you just made. You know, when you're working internally in a totally different focus area and your data serving, you know, they're not thinking with the storytelling lens that we're thinking for yourself.
00:29:14:20 - 00:29:24:15
Leslie
They don't know to share it. They would if they knew it would be helpful, but they didn't know that. And so you have to sort of seek and go ask. And I think that's the best, easiest piece of advice for people.
00:29:24:17 - 00:29:42:03
Jason
I love that I love that. All right. We have like four more things I want to hit on. And I feel like we could just keep talking. So I want to kind of, start, focusing on, four items as we wrap up here. And so one thing we want to talk about was kind of making sure your communication is driving business results.
00:29:42:06 - 00:29:44:04
Jason
talk to me more about that.
00:29:44:06 - 00:30:03:20
Leslie
Yeah. So that goes back to the, you know, the ROI question. Well, you know, how how do I know that that, you know, Bloomberg Press had got me any bookings. And there are things that are you can't measure, but there are things that you can do in terms of driving business impact. I mean, the first thing I would say on this almost it you know, you can you can put a little bit of, of fear in your CEO.
00:30:03:22 - 00:30:21:09
Leslie
you know, how how we land a story or message can move if you're a public company, can move your stock price. You know, if you're thinking about sharing, you know, I've seen instances where companies will announce something really great, new and innovative, and they tell it that way, but it actually scares investors that they're spending. You're wasting too much money.
00:30:21:10 - 00:30:41:27
Leslie
What you thought was a great story will hurt your stock, right? So that's where the like, the lens of communication is. You know, that's not an example of selling something and generating revenue obviously. But it's about, you know, anything we say can create or destroy value within seconds. And so our role in our expertise is to help make sure that we're doing more for creating and less of the destroying, of course.
00:30:41:29 - 00:31:02:18
Leslie
But I mean, I've seen really interesting, instances where in our company, you know, we do brand advertising in some big markets, we brand advertising, you ask, like we're global company. We don't spend in brand advertising everywhere, but we will do things like, you know, data driven insights. So we'll have communications and PR campaigns in countries where we don't brand advertise.
00:31:02:24 - 00:31:18:26
Leslie
And you see the impact you see, you know, brand awareness go up over time. And so I look at things like that is saying, so can I tell you exactly how much of that was attributable. But I can tell you consistently when we've turned that on in a country, you see an uptick that you don't see when you happen.
00:31:18:26 - 00:31:38:11
Leslie
So I think there are a lot of ways that that you really can say that communications can drive real business value. it also drives business value when you save, you know, a company from getting itself into trouble that then has to spend how, you know, who knows how much on legal fees or, you know, anything, whatever happened that went wrong or investing in technology to fix a product problem.
00:31:38:18 - 00:31:46:14
Leslie
So playing that lens, you can also make sure, you know, we can, I think, bring money into the business, but make sure we're not losing money at the same time.
00:31:46:14 - 00:31:56:16
Jason
oh that's great. Leslie, you mentioned brand awareness, and I can't help but ask you, how often and how do you go about measuring brand awareness in different markets?
00:31:56:18 - 00:32:17:16
Leslie
It's a great question. And I would say, like everything we do is constant trial and error and like evolution of trying new things and and testing how we definitely in major markets, will look at brand awareness on a quarterly level. I think should you make, you know, big decisions based on a quarter's worth of data when you're a big, globally scaled company?
00:32:17:21 - 00:32:40:21
Leslie
No, probably not, but I think tracking that over time. Plus, if we do it once a year, you can't really account for perhaps like seasonal things or you can't. If there was a drop, it's harder to pinpoint. So we track on a quarterly basis. I wouldn't say that drives decision making on a quarterly basis, but it does allow us to sort of, if we do see anomalies or see things that concern us to have a better understanding of when that could have happened and then what might have caused it.
00:32:40:28 - 00:33:00:10
Leslie
How we do it is it makes up a lot of things. I mean, we use, you know, third party research to tell us we we try to get as many sources as we can and hope that they're relatively consistent, because that allows us to have more faith in the data, that the data might be accurate. So we will, you know, by research third parties, we will do our own survey and consumer testing.
00:33:00:10 - 00:33:11:26
Leslie
So I think there are lots of different ways. And we're looking at how we continue to do that and where and how we touch consumers. but as many sources as we can, for help and accuracy.
00:33:11:28 - 00:33:35:11
Jason
Well, for our audience, I'll just add that I've always been a big fan of measuring communication and your public relations quarter over quarter. because then you you can have months, like you said, seasonality of months or something like that. And if you try to measure it, you know, weekly or monthly, it just seems to I mean, you do activities to measure throughout that period of time, of course.
00:33:35:14 - 00:34:01:06
Jason
But I think that if you're looking at a high level, you know, kind of apples to apples measure at quarterly and, whether you have a fiscal year or traditional calendar year, I think that's really important. Yeah. Okay. So, this all kind of leads into the next question I had, which is, you know, how do you manage increasing expectations, for the company and on behalf of, the C-suite and leadership team members?
00:34:01:08 - 00:34:25:17
Leslie
Yeah, that's a big topic, too. I think, you know, it's businesses used to be responsible for delivering results, right? Return value to your shareholders. They invest and deliver. And that was really it. And, you know, CEOs appeared four times a year to deliver, you know, earnings results. And that was it. But the expectations on companies now it's wildly wildly different companies are expected to have a point of view on things.
00:34:25:17 - 00:34:51:23
Leslie
People expect. CEOs speak out on political topics. You have your own employees who are sort of expecting that of a company, that they take a stance on social issues. So there's a lot. And how you balance that is is tricky, you know, is there responsibility and obligation while society's expecting that, then there is probably to a degree, the way we think about it is really, you know, where are we qualified to speak.
00:34:51:25 - 00:35:10:05
Leslie
So if somebody, you know, we're a travel and technology company. So if you know, there's a big piece of legislation out there about, you know, how, you show fees or something like that, you know, we have sort of a right and knowledge base, we work in the industry to maybe have a point of view on that.
00:35:10:05 - 00:35:38:03
Leslie
And maybe that's an example. I'm completely making that up where we might say, okay, you know, it's okay to go out and be a part of this discussion if it's on a topic completely unrelated to who we are as a company, what our expertise is. just because a leader or an employee subset may have an a point of view on a burning political or social topic, I don't think that is the time and place for a company or, you know, an executive to get involved if you don't really have the right to speak.
00:35:38:03 - 00:35:57:27
Leslie
But there's certainly no science to that. That is a lot of really, you know, paying attention, listening to what people are saying, truly evaluating if you have a right to have an opinion and also then understanding the risks of either speaking or sometimes the risks of not speaking. So, it keeps our jobs interesting, that's for sure.
00:35:57:29 - 00:36:28:20
Jason
Yeah, I totally agree, and I appreciate you sharing that. You mentioned, earlier also the idea of just kind of I call it kind of pleasing to, you know, audiences, right? You've got the shareholder price and you've got the marketplace that you're trying to influence. And many times, working with clients, you know, we've had situations where the company is doing fabulous financially, but something happened at another company that investors and analysts are just assuming the shoe is going to drop, you know, on the other foot for, our particular clients or something like that.
00:36:28:20 - 00:36:49:03
Jason
And so I think that was a point. I want to at least make sure that our audience didn't missed where, you know, you said you might have a big innovative announcement, but then you scare off some shareholders because they're starting to think about, you know, how much company, how much money the company spending on this innovation. Right. And, that's something that private corporations have the luxury of not having to worry about so much.
00:36:49:06 - 00:37:13:12
Jason
and I think, they probably just take that for granted. So you have to work very closely in your role, I'm sure, with investor relations and other parties to make sure you don't send the wrong message or position something the wrong way. And it could and it could be, as you know, you're talking to industry. trade media, and it gets intercepted or picked up by, analysts or investors and things could go sideways.
00:37:13:12 - 00:37:22:16
Jason
So, that's always something I've really enjoyed as having really good colleagues in IR, to lean against and collaborate with, to make sure the messaging all lines up.
00:37:22:18 - 00:37:26:03
Leslie
Absolutely. We're on speed dial.
00:37:26:05 - 00:37:37:29
Jason
Right. And then, earlier we talked about, Jen, I and, I just wanted to ask you, you know, are there any other trends that are that are on top of mind for you that our, our audience should be aware of?
00:37:38:01 - 00:37:56:24
Leslie
I think one of the biggest trends for us to think about in communications now is just the the crazy acceleration of channels that we have to be well versed in communicating on. So it was sort of, you know, back in the day, you just had to know how to write a press release. And as you know, channels have increased.
00:37:56:24 - 00:38:13:26
Leslie
You have to learn how to talk to your customers on social media if they reach out to you or how to. But now even social media is becoming if you're a global company, you know what people, use in Korea is very different than what people use in India or the U.S or and it's it's so rapidly changing.
00:38:13:26 - 00:38:36:16
Leslie
And even when you think sometimes I hear social media as, as one channel kind of lumped together together as a category, you know, you have to learn how to communicate on social media. But how a company communicates on TikTok or X or Instagram or lying or anything else is very, very different. So I think from a comms perspective, being comms professionals, you have to have expertise in all of those.
00:38:36:16 - 00:39:00:22
Leslie
You know, 20 years ago I didn't have all these channels. So I'm certainly not the expert, but I have to make sure either my agency partners are experts or I have people, you know, on our team. So I think it's just keeping a pulse on how many new places there are to communicate. And how you have to tailor is is one of the sort of, you know, trends or things that we're keeping an eye on as well as and I think we touched on this earlier, just the sheer number of audiences that you're speaking to.
00:39:00:24 - 00:39:14:08
Leslie
it's it's society. It's the public. And your customers are also, you know, potentially the media could be your investors. So it's just when you who we're speaking to and the channels at which we're speaking, it's just an a massive point of acceleration.
00:39:14:10 - 00:39:47:12
Jason
Yeah. I think that's great. I would just summarize what you're saying by adding that the, the, skills, talents and responsibilities haven't changed. Just the tools and, and platforms and the speed of which you can communicate directly with your audience has, increased. And therefore making every move you make, more critical and potentially vulnerable. And so therefore, you really have to be a wise strategist and an excellent communicator, and then leverage those tools.
00:39:47:12 - 00:40:09:26
Jason
And so, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. And a lot of these tools we're talking about gives us more power and therefore ultimately more responsibility. And all the more reason we have to really instill in our team the importance of ethics and integrity and just good best practices. so I love that we're in an age now where we have so many, tools and ability to communicate.
00:40:09:29 - 00:40:38:09
Jason
24, 73, 65 it is stressful, but it is also, you know, very powerful and very beneficial when when manage. Well, absolutely. so, Leslie, I want to talk about your work with, diversity. I think that's important. And something I want to make sure we included in. Excuse me and close on today. so, maybe you could talk a little bit more about your work, ensuring diverse voices are heard, respected and represented.
00:40:38:12 - 00:40:42:11
Jason
What that looks like internally in the organization as well as externally.
00:40:42:13 - 00:41:06:06
Leslie
Yeah, absolutely. I and I think by and large, our company, we're truly believes that diversity of perspectives will lend to better business. So, I think internally, you know, I'm, I'm the executive sponsor of the equal, which is our employee resource group promoting, the growth, further development of women and our company, which I think is incredibly important.
00:41:06:06 - 00:41:26:29
Leslie
You know, I've had an amazing career myself and so many people along the way who have helped to guide me to make sure, you know, to get to the level where I'm at. And I like to offer the same to the extent to which I can, but also try to bring that perspective. You know, I think our company does a really good job understanding that diversity of thought opinion is important to the business, but how can I also take that message elsewhere?
00:41:26:29 - 00:41:45:01
Leslie
So when I have the opportunity to do so, I always try to talk about why and how we believe that's important. And from a communications perspective, it's so important because going back to what we were talking about, you have to listen to inform what to say. If you're listening to one subset of opinion, you're not getting the whole story.
00:41:45:01 - 00:42:03:22
Leslie
And I don't think we would. You know, you then aren't doing your job well to relay back to the company. You know, how how you need to communicate. So you definitely need to be listening to. So working constantly to strive for diversity, even on our own team to make sure we have diversity of perspectives geographically, gender, lots of, you know, diverse opinions.
00:42:03:22 - 00:42:13:12
Leslie
So definitely think it's important. And something that, we said businesses should continue to think about and, and talk about both internally and externally.
00:42:13:15 - 00:42:47:18
Jason
I completely agree with you. It sounds like an incredible, opportunity, for the organization. And I've always found that it's very beneficial the more the better. diversity and representation you have in your organization, the less likely you are to make mistakes or gaffes or faux pause. but also, it seems like a very big, challenge opportunity when you're operating multiple brands and more specifically, multiple global brands, that you have to be aware and sensitive, and alert to, managing expectations.
00:42:47:18 - 00:42:53:22
Jason
And in multiple markets where values can be can be polar opposite from one another.
00:42:53:24 - 00:43:21:19
Leslie
Absolutely. And we do and we do have we are a global company. So we have a lot of opportunity to create a really diverse workforce, which is and one of the reasons why, you know, I love working where I work, but but absolutely. we have a lot of different viewpoints on a lot of different topics. And we have to be I mean, we we have a set of values that we strive to operate by as a company and, you know, tolerance and openness to other ideas and opinions remains one.
00:43:21:19 - 00:43:38:22
Leslie
But it doesn't mean, you know, your own employees will agree on every topic. And there are definitely challenging moments that are challenging moments for leaders that are challenging them. And so, you know, this is, I think something all companies. Yeah. There was a time and place where you didn't really talk about your point of view on things in your workplace, and that just completely changed.
00:43:38:22 - 00:43:54:15
Leslie
So, you know, with diversity of perspectives comes, you know, diversity of, you know, different points of view on different topics. And you have to be willing to accept that. And sometimes, you know, the, the debate or dialog maybe didn't know you were going to have, but you have to be willing to have it.
00:43:54:18 - 00:44:07:12
Jason
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I thought this was a great episode, a great conversation. I appreciate you joining us. If someone who is an audience member wants to connect with you or or learn more about you, where should they go?
00:44:07:15 - 00:44:10:04
Leslie
you can find me on LinkedIn.
00:44:10:07 - 00:44:20:18
Jason
Perfect. Excellent. Yeah. And, just as a parting question for you, what is one of your favorite travel hacks or travel tips you would give somebody?
00:44:20:21 - 00:44:40:16
Leslie
Oh, well, I'm going to say this one is for business travel. Specifically, I'd say was I do a lot of it. Never, ever, ever check a bag. Even if you're going to Asia for like ten days, you have to figure out how to set that because you missed too many meetings and cause yourself way too many headaches. So no matter what, never check a bag.
00:44:40:18 - 00:44:53:13
Leslie
And what if my CEO were here? He would actually say that applies to all leisure travel too, because he will not tak. I mean, even for like a two week vacation, that's a whole different skill that I don't have. But that would be my travel hack for business travelers out.
00:44:53:13 - 00:45:10:29
Jason
Then I'll have to replay that part for my wife, because when we travel together, she loves checking a bag and I'm like, you only love it because you haven't been burnt by it yet. Yes, once you've been burnt, then you're like me and you're like, nope, not checking bags. But I always end up defaulting to checking a bag because I have to wait for her to check it anyway, you know?
00:45:10:29 - 00:45:27:04
Jason
And I'm like, okay, well, if we're going to have to check, I guess I'll check a bag too. But yeah, yeah. Anyway, I always keep, at least one change of clothes, on me all the time when I travel with him. Yeah. Leslie, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. And, appreciate you being here today.
00:45:27:07 - 00:45:30:12
Leslie
Yeah. Thank you. Jason, it's been great discussion. Thanks for having me.
00:45:30:14 - 00:45:40:10
Jason
Yeah. My pleasure. So with that, that's another episode of On Top of PR. Thank you for tuning in. If you found value in this episode one, let us know. And two, please share it with a colleague or
00:45:40:10 - 00:46:36:01
Announcer
This has been On Top of PR with Jason Mudd presented by ReviewMaxer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check our past episodes at ontopofpr.com.
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About your host Jason Mudd
On Top of PR host, Jason Mudd, is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist for some of America’s most admired brands and fastest-growing companies. Since 1994, he’s worked with American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon. He founded Axia Public Relations in July 2002. Forbes named Axia as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
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