In this episode, Shel Holtz joins On Top of PR host Jason Mudd to discuss AI in corporate communications.
Tune in to learn more!
Our guest
Shel Holtz leads communications innovation at Webcor, a premier commercial construction firm. As Webcor’s senior director of communication, Holtz pioneers AI integration in corporate communications. He brings over two decades of Fortune 400 experience and strategic communication expertise to help organizations navigate digital transformation.
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the episode here:
5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:
- Social media marketing trends
- The importance of analytics, content management, and keyword analysis
- How certification can lead to career advancement
- Strategies for communicating social media value to leadership
- Ways to combat burnout and imposter syndrome
About Jennifer Radke
Jennifer Radke is the CEO of two leading certification organizations: the National Institute for Social Media and Online Marketing Certified Professionals. With over a decade of experience in professional development, she focuses on helping marketing professionals advance their careers through certification, continuing education, and skill development. Jennifer is a respected educator, author, and international speaker who regularly shares insights on social media strategy and digital marketing trends.
Quotables
- Having your own personal brand is completely different than running a business brand and understanding the acumen that comes into engaging with current customers, past customers, and future customers." — @RadkeJen
- "Social and digital allows us to do so much faster. So we have to be keeping current with those opportunities." — @RadkeJen
- "If we could get rid of the term or question, 'Can you make this go viral?' that would be like the best accomplishment." — @RadkeJen
- "You have to be professional yet interesting enough and engaging enough. You also have to be free of typos and grammar while still being conversational." — @JasonMudd9
- "Find a community that you can collaborate with, commiserate with, and just share resources. It is important to be surrounded by people who understand what you do." — @RadkeJen
Resources
- Jennifer Radke on LinkedIn
- Jennifer Radke on X
- National Institute for Social Media (NISM)
- Online Marketing Certified Professionals (OMCP)
- Get a free NISM eBook with code "ontopofpr"
Additional Episode Resources from Axia Public Relations:
- Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR podcast.
- Find out more about Axia Public Relations.
Disclosure: One or more of the links we shared here might be affiliate links that offer us a referral reward when you buy from them.
Our On Top of PR sponsors:
Production sponsor: Axia Public Relations, one of America’s Best PR Agencies, according to Forbes Magazine
Presenting sponsor: ReviewMaxer, the platform for monitoring, improving, and promoting online customer reviews
Coffee Sponsor: Fans like you fuel our efforts using buy me a coffee.
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Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:29
Announcer
Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd, presented by ReviewMaxer.
00:00:09:29 - 00:00:27:23
Jason
Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I’m your host, Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. Today I'm joined by our special guest, Jennifer Radtke from the National Institute for Social Media and Online Marketing certified Professionals. We're here to talk about social media and how, you can navigate professional growth in social media marketing.
00:00:27:24 - 00:00:29:22
Jason
Jennifer, welcome to the show.
00:00:29:24 - 00:00:32:14
Jennifer
Thank you for having me, Jason. Great to be here.
00:00:32:17 - 00:00:53:04
Jason
Yeah. It is. It's great to have you. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad that you've, joined us to help our audience stay on top of PPR. Jennifer is the CEO of two certification organizations focused on helping marketing professionals level up their skills and build confidence and credibility. The National Institute for Social Media, an online marketing certification.
00:00:53:04 - 00:01:25:25
Jason
Professionals. You're also an op educator, author, and international speaker, so we're really excited to have you on the program today. As we explore, navigating professional growth in social media marketing, which I think is a very timely topic and helpful for our audience. You know, we sense that the PR profession did a really good job of quickly grabbing on to social media as a powerful tool early on, realizing that, you know, really sophisticated PR people are always looking for new and better ways to connect with their audience.
00:01:25:27 - 00:01:49:02
Jason
And it's not necessarily just about, you know, getting media coverage and publicity. It's about building relationships and connections with your audience. As a PR professional, I love any tool that can help me connect 1 to 1 or directly with my target audience. And, you know, social media has become, so powerful for doing that over, you know, the last hard to believe almost 20 years, you know, that we've been using social media.
00:01:49:02 - 00:02:08:19
Jason
So, you know, there's a lot of buzz around generative artificial intelligence. And I've been around long enough to know when the internet came out, when cell phones came out, when social media came out. So, you know, to me, I see this as just yet another tool in a, professional toolbox that, you know, what's this cliche? With great power comes great responsibility.
00:02:08:21 - 00:02:20:15
Jason
And that's how I feel very strongly about social media and about generative AI. So I'm glad you're here today, Jennifer. Anything else you want to share? Was we, start the the program today.
00:02:20:18 - 00:02:39:18
Jennifer
You know, I think we're on the same track there. I to tell people all the time that it is simply a communications tool, like so many others that have come before, whether that be the telephone or email or direct mail. But social and digital allows us to do so much faster. So we have to be keeping current with those opportunities.
00:02:39:20 - 00:03:00:23
Jason
I totally agree. You know, you might have more speed and more volume to reach people, but again, that's when you have to even be more careful. So I tell people all the time, you know, the the fundamental foundational skill set hasn't changed. You start to be a great communicator. You still have to put your audience first. You have to make sure you're not ruining the tool or taking advantage of the tool for everybody else.
00:03:00:23 - 00:03:27:20
Jason
Right. But yeah, but, you know, it's clearly social media is, is an important part of the communication. Toolbox. So I want to get into a little bit about current industry trends and perceptions of social, professionals. You know, we've had some other guests on the show in the past, and one theme has been, you know, the woes of the one person, social media department or a one man band.
00:03:27:27 - 00:03:47:17
Jason
And, just how hard that is, to do, but how common that exists, as well as the commonality of. Oh, well, my niece or nephew or, you know, somebody much younger than me, they understand social media well. So they should do the social media for our organization, which we all know is professionals, is very far from the truth.
00:03:47:19 - 00:03:56:09
Jason
They might have potential. But that doesn't mean that, you know, they're a professional at it. So let's talk about the current industry trends. Jennifer.
00:03:56:11 - 00:04:20:25
Jennifer
Yeah, absolutely. So you're spot on there. Jason. One of the trends that we're seeing right now is unfortunate because it hasn't changed. And it is exactly what you're talking about, where social media marketing professionals are feeling a lack of respect for the work that they do, because so many times business leaders are saying, well, my niece or nephew, my 14 year old could do that or it's free.
00:04:20:25 - 00:04:49:22
Jennifer
Why do you need a budget? Or you don't really need any specific skills to do this. Just post it. And unfortunately, that's not how this works, right? Having your own personal brand is completely different than running a business brand and understanding the acumen that comes into engaging with current customers, past customers, and future customers as well. So that lack of respect is still an underlying trend.
00:04:49:24 - 00:05:16:16
Jennifer
There's also still, lack of understanding. And I think these two things kind of go hand in hand. Right? So that respect is something that the professionals working in this space feel. But understanding is something we have as a charge that we have to try to, support and educate. So there are still so many people throughout an organization that don't really understand what it is a social media marketer does.
00:05:16:19 - 00:05:41:04
Jennifer
Because like you said, that for so long they've been one person shows and they've done a little bit of everything from the website to video editing to writing long form content to engaging in a crisis. And we need to make sure that as an organization grows, that we hone in and provide resources for the teams that are doing this.
00:05:41:06 - 00:06:08:01
Jennifer
Likely the PR team should be handling some of these crises in conjunction with the social media community managers who are online engaging with people, all the time, not just during a crisis. And so it really is about educating and helping everyone within the business understand what's happening here. There are a lot of other kind of interesting trends that are happening right now, too, that are more platform specific.
00:06:08:03 - 00:06:39:05
Jennifer
So for marketers, there's always a whole bunch of things that they have to focus on and learn and keep up to date with. One that has not diminished in its importance is analytics. We are still seeing this as being a huge portion of what a social media strategist or social media marketer is responsible for doing, not only understanding what they're measuring, but knowing how to find that data and then report, adequately through to the C-suite or the leadership teams.
00:06:39:07 - 00:06:57:16
Jennifer
Content management is still a big one, right? Like, what is it that we're putting out on these platforms? How do we make sure that it's reaching the audience in a way that's beneficial for them? How do we stay brand right with it and stay away from just naming the heck out of everything so that we can get a laugh?
00:06:57:18 - 00:07:17:05
Jennifer
And then last but not least, is definitely coming in at keyword analysis, right? How can we, for a lack of better term game, the system? How can we use the tools to make sure we're showing up either in search engine or in different algorithms where we're coming up in the search when our customers are trying to find us?
00:07:17:06 - 00:07:21:16
Jennifer
So those are some of the trends that continue to lead the way.
00:07:21:18 - 00:07:44:08
Jason
Yeah, that's really good. You know, 20 years ago or more, I know the public relations profession was struggling to have a seat at the table and, you know, really, make sure that they were valued by leadership. And I think the way that, you know, PR leaders have overcome that have been, you know, focusing on strategy, you know, measure aligning.
00:07:44:11 - 00:08:16:08
Jason
Well, first of all, aligning their goals and objectives with those of the organization broadly. So, in other words, not being rogue and on your own and setting your own goals and objectives for PR that are off line or off target of what you know, the leadership team is looking at. But to figure out what is important to the leadership team, say in 2025 or depending on when you listen to this in 2026 and beyond, and then making sure your corporate communications and your public relations and social media goals and objectives are in line with those same things.
00:08:16:08 - 00:08:45:19
Jason
And and so demonstrating to leadership the impact that whatever you're doing has on the overarching goals and objectives of the organization. Then the second thing I would say is then you want to focus on strategy and report back the in measuring the impact that you're having towards accomplishing those kind of KPIs that are relevant. So I think, as you know, if you come to the C-suite and you talk about, the number of impressions and the visibility and the click through, the number of clicks you got.
00:08:45:22 - 00:09:10:16
Jason
Right. Okay. Well, what does that mean to actual either conversions or how did that impact the organization? And then suddenly they don't know the answer and they start fumbling. And then you're no longer trusted or necessarily desired to have a seat at the table there. So I think you're right. When you talk about analytics, you know, it's more than just the sizzle and the splash of, you know, posting, a lot of memes that get attention, but it's truly how you know, how did we raise awareness?
00:09:10:18 - 00:09:28:24
Jason
How did we impact the audience? How did we engage the audience to take some sort of action, whether that's advocacy for your organization, voting for your, political, issue or candidate or, you know, making a donation or choosing to purchase from your organization.
00:09:28:26 - 00:09:53:03
Jennifer
Yeah. And you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about the fact that all of those numbers need to back up the organization's objectives, because if your organization this year is focused in on, volunteer hours and increasing the number of volunteers and the hours they're spending, but your focus in on building brand awareness or community partnerships, they may not be in alignment.
00:09:53:03 - 00:09:58:02
Jennifer
Right. So what is it that we're really trying to measure and how?
00:09:58:04 - 00:10:27:10
Jason
Yeah, what really matters ultimately to I think candidly the audience first and then, you know, the the leadership of the organization. Second. So you know, the way you keep an engaged audience is you keep it about what's interesting to them and in order to keep them engaged. And that's the long term strategy, the long term vision. And, and, you know, I think it's so important that if you're a leader listening to this and you're not sure what your social media team is doing, one, I'm pretty sure they're doing more than you recognize and appreciate.
00:10:27:13 - 00:10:35:20
Jason
And two, you know that it is a long game and you shouldn't look at, you know, short term wins as the only way to judge the success of your program.
00:10:35:22 - 00:10:46:17
Jennifer
Oh, 100%. If we could get rid of the term or question, can you make this go viral? That would be like the best accomplishment. I would just retire and be done.
00:10:46:20 - 00:10:52:03
Jason
Well, my my favorite response to that is always, well, when you say viral, what does that mean to you? Right.
00:10:52:05 - 00:10:53:19
Jennifer
That is a good response. Yeah.
00:10:53:23 - 00:11:10:02
Jason
Because yeah, that that can mean a lot of things. And, you know, especially when you're dealing with maybe somebody who has very limited number of, of, followers or audience that they've earned, so far. And I always want to go viral and I'm like, so does that mean, you know, all 300 of your followers saw it?
00:11:10:02 - 00:11:28:06
Jason
No, I'm just joking. It's not 300. But but, you know, I'm kind of like, you know, what does viral mean to you? And my favorite is when it's like, you know, a B2B company that's so niche or whatever it might be that it's like, you know, well, what's viral going to do for you ultimately, if you're, you know, only trying to attract a very narrow, audience.
00:11:28:08 - 00:11:44:02
Jason
So you've got a job study that I'm curious to hear more about. Yeah. And, just at a high level kind of what what is the job study and, and, how would, what how would it how how does it, benefit our audience?
00:11:44:04 - 00:12:05:09
Jennifer
Yeah. So the job study is something we do every couple of years. And our main purpose for doing it is to make sure that the certifications that we offer are on track, that we're measuring the right things, we're educating people in the right areas, and we're focused on the changes that are happening within social media strategy, social media marketing or online marketing.
00:12:05:11 - 00:12:29:29
Jennifer
And so the job site is something we do fairly routinely. The last one that we did earlier this year had over 1400 respondents. And it really gives this a lot of insight into, what's going on in the industry. Where are people spending their time, not just on platforms, although that information is in there as well. But what are the tasks that they're doing every day and what are they expected to know?
00:12:30:01 - 00:12:53:00
Jennifer
Is it something they're doing themselves, or are they managing a team that's doing them? Are they perhaps working with an agency or another organization? And so it really kind of outlines for us some of the trends that are happening in this space. We also get some really good data around how the industry certifications are helping people, because that's how we listen to our audience.
00:12:53:00 - 00:13:18:25
Jennifer
Right? So, for example, in this last study, we found out that 54% of those who were certified received a raise as a result of getting their certification, 56% received a promotion. We have some numbers around confidence and getting a new job if they were within job transition. So it just really kind of helps us make sure that we are offering support to the industry, in a really great way.
00:13:18:27 - 00:13:47:27
Jennifer
For folks listening. It can be really insightful for not only those working in the space who are going to go. I feel seen, right? Like this is exactly what I'm doing all the time. These are the things that I struggle with. These are the opportunities that are here for me. But leadership to look at it and go, wow, okay, I didn't realize that my team of one was expected to know and do all of this.
00:13:47:29 - 00:14:05:19
Jennifer
Maybe the next time they ask for some help within, consultants to come in for a few hours or to outsource a project for design, for example, they might be a little bit more inclined to understand why that's being requested and how they can support that team.
00:14:05:21 - 00:14:25:22
Jason
Well, as two leaders in our own organizations, I'd like to spend a little time talking about that for just a minute. So, you know, early in my career, I earned, you know, accreditation and public relations and, you know, they kind of said the same thing, you know, like this percentage of people end up getting, you know, a raise or, you know, promotion or whatever.
00:14:25:29 - 00:14:52:11
Jason
But I always sense that, like, you almost have to set the table for the person to understand that, you know, just because you went and earned a certification doesn't mean that suddenly the company was holding on to money they weren't giving you before. Right? So, you know, is it more of the outcome of the, of of the advanced knowledge and education and maybe even the strategic view that person brings back to the organization?
00:14:52:13 - 00:15:17:19
Jennifer
I think that's a great question. I, I would guess it's more twofold. So one is the increased experience, education, knowledge that they now get to bring into the room. But we also try to focus on helping people educate their leadership about what they know. Good. So even if they came with that knowledge before they got the certification, now they can communicate that more effectively.
00:15:17:19 - 00:15:28:19
Jennifer
They can share that in a way that makes the leadership understand that they're paying for a higher skill set than what they would if they were hiring off, the resume board today.
00:15:28:22 - 00:15:36:24
Jason
Okay. All right. I've got another question for you about that. But we it's time for us to take a quick break and come back on the other side with more with Jennifer Radtke.
00:15:36:24 - 00:16:01:12
Announcer
You're listening to On Top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted advisor to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.
00:16:01:12 - 00:16:30:05
Jason
Welcome back to On Top of PR. We’re with Jennifer Radtke talking about navigating professional growth in social media. And Jennifer, I was just about to ask you an additional question, about the, benefits of getting the certification for, the employer. And so you had kind of answered my question a little bit preemptively, which was, you know, you had mentioned that, that you help educate the social media professional on how to articulate to leadership and educate leadership on, on, per se, all that they do.
00:16:30:08 - 00:16:50:29
Jason
And so, because that's what we're going to ask is, you know what? How does that happen? Because the attention span oftentimes, of leadership is, you know, pretty quick. And so the example I used earlier, you know, I think, the accreditation board sent a letter to my boss saying I earned this thing. And, you know, we're trying to puff up and promote how valuable it was, which I think it was extremely valuable.
00:16:51:01 - 00:17:05:28
Jason
But the two seconds my boss in on it, he literally just wrote congratulations and put it back on my desk, you know, and that was the end of the conversation, right? So I had to be the one to bring it up to him and advocate and kind of explain what all I learned and how how the organization would ultimately benefit from that.
00:17:06:00 - 00:17:32:19
Jason
So to that end, you know, help me. Let's let's talk a little bit more about some of the highlights, perhaps, of, you know, because obviously we want to encourage, the audience who is interested in pursuing this. So what would be some of the things they could do to both, bring attention to the value they bring the organization as well as educating, the organizations on the importance of social media and their role, as a professional, guiding the organization.
00:17:32:21 - 00:17:52:28
Jennifer
I think that's a fantastic question. There's a lot of different opportunities. And depending on your role in your organization, some of these may be easily done. And some of these might be a little harder. But it's one thing to tell somebody, hey, I received this certification and this is what it means. It's another to show them and remind them.
00:17:53:01 - 00:18:21:14
Jennifer
So one of the things that we, focus a lot on is continuing education. So wonderful. You earned your credential. How are you going to stay current? This stuff changes so quickly. Right. And so you have to do that through continuing education. So when you're meeting with your supervisor, it might be your annual review where you try to put some things in your goals for the year that are around supporting that certification and your continued development.
00:18:21:17 - 00:18:47:08
Jennifer
But it also might just be, team meetings or bringing in something that you've learned more recently to share with others and educate people. Because when you're educating your team, your boss is also paying attention to wait, what is it that Jason knows about? And where did you get that again? Right. So we're just constantly or consistently being top of mind and showing that we know what we're talking about.
00:18:47:11 - 00:19:08:01
Jennifer
Here's why. We're studying these things on a fairly frequent basis. We have resources. We can provide the team so we can all speak the same language. And that way you're building up that credibility. You're building up that, experience, that knowledge base, that thought leadership piece that your employer is looking for.
00:19:08:03 - 00:19:21:25
Jason
Well, Jennifer, now would be a good opportunity for you to tell us, a little bit more about the organization as well as the certification options that you offer. And while we're at it, you know, a special offer that you have today for our audience.
00:19:21:27 - 00:19:45:11
Jennifer
Sure. So the National Institute for Social Media has been around, for about 12 years now. They focus on a social media strategist certification. So the Smyth, it covers, six main areas of strategy. So it is platform agnostic. We're not really focused in on, you know, how do you put an ad on Twitter. But more importantly, who's your audience?
00:19:45:18 - 00:20:14:23
Jennifer
Strategic planning. How do we align that all with goals? How do we stay compliant and use, the governing forces that are in this space? How do we implement marketing communication strategy, both internal and external, over creating our content, engaging with people? How do we handle project or campaign management, outsourcing vendors, things like that. Online community management, which is going to come in with both engaging the audience you do have, as well as crisis.
00:20:14:25 - 00:20:38:09
Jennifer
And then last but certainly not least, I'd say it's woven in. All of the five that I just mentioned is research and analysis. How are we using data to back up those points? So we have got, a variety of ways for people to prepare for that, whether it be just getting a textbook and a practice exam or going through a full six week instructor led course.
00:20:38:11 - 00:21:09:20
Jennifer
So there's lots of different opportunities based on where people are coming from. As you mentioned earlier, we also acquired a second certification body called OMC or Online Marketing Certified Professionals. We brought them into the family about a year and a half ago, and they focus up more on some of the digital strategies. So things like search engine optimization, digital analytics, pay per click advertising, conversion rate optimization, email, mobile, and then they have some content and social in there as well.
00:21:09:22 - 00:21:33:05
Jennifer
And there's two levels there. As an associate level, which is more entry level. And then professional level, which allows you to really hone in on two areas of specialty. So really to be able to say, I know this broad base of information, but I also have these two areas, maybe it's pay per click and search engine optimization, for example, that I really am an expert in.
00:21:33:08 - 00:22:00:25
Jennifer
So we've got those different certification, options. We also have some assessment based certificate. So there's a lot of things that people can learn. We offer free webinars a couple times a month in conjunction with that passion to really do continuing education. And then the offer that we have right now is you can get one of six of our, core textbooks, ebooks at no charge just by, listening and grabbing the code.
00:22:00:25 - 00:22:08:15
Jennifer
So we hope that people can go out and get some great, valuable information in the content domain area that's interesting to them.
00:22:08:18 - 00:22:21:20
Jason
Nice. Awesome. So, one of the six books you offer using the, promo code, our coupon code perhaps of on top of PR and it appears that needs to be in all caps. Is that case sensitive?
00:22:21:23 - 00:22:25:06
Jennifer
I don't think it's case sensitive. And if it is, it's all lowercase, actually.
00:22:25:07 - 00:22:46:29
Jason
Okay, so it's all one word. And we'll put that in the episode notes. I'd also like to, put in our episode notes a link to the monthly webinar. Because I think that could be valuable as well. Jennifer, is it, you know, full time employee. Geez, who are the best audience for this type of, continuing education programs?
00:22:47:02 - 00:23:07:06
Jason
Or do you think it's also for those that aspire to be content creators and, and maybe make a living doing that on their own or kind of. And what about the, you know, the CEOs of corporations who want to increase their visibility on social media platforms, like who's the ideal audience for, these programs?
00:23:07:08 - 00:23:40:16
Jennifer
Yeah. So our core audience right now is a marketing professional with between 3 and 10 years of experience. They're utilizing social on a daily basis to really get their message out there for their brand. But we are seeing a lot of so it's about 55, 60% of our current audience we are seeing, maybe 20, 25% of those, I want to be a content creator, or I've built up a personal brand and I want to figure out how to better monetize this.
00:23:40:23 - 00:24:12:07
Jennifer
Yeah, and bring this into clients. And then we do have, kind of another 20 or so percent that is of that CMO or CEO level who really just wants to understand how to speak more intelligently with their marketing team. Right. And so it's got that huge variety in that big mix in the middle. It's really split three ways between the freelancers doing this for, a variety of companies on a contract basis to agency staff.
00:24:12:07 - 00:24:20:15
Jennifer
So they're working in that agency environment, but doing it for other clients. And then the corporate folks who are part of a corporate marketing team.
00:24:20:18 - 00:24:30:07
Jason
Okay. Awesome. I don't know if we talked about this, but, are you comfortable giving kind of, the required investment range to get started in these programs?
00:24:30:09 - 00:25:17:13
Jennifer
Absolutely. So the certification exam itself on the OMC side is either 225 or 395, depending on which exam you take. The social media strategist at NASA, is 395 if you want to prepare for it. They include the exams in each of our package. So the the lowest one starts at 499. And that so the exam a textbook and a practice exam up to 1495 which is a full six week online curriculum, six hours of one on one time with an educator or our cohort model, which is with a group of students, over a six week period and all of the tools that go with it, the textbook, the practice exams, study manual,
00:25:17:13 - 00:25:18:17
Jennifer
things like that.
00:25:18:19 - 00:25:50:23
Jason
So clearly something that is a, scalable and affordable investment in either yourself or your talent that you have in the organization. And, and yes, I like that. So is would this also be, you know, again, we we started the program off talking about how, you know, you've seen a lot of the people who have completed this process enjoy, you know, financial or or even just, status increase in the organization either by raise and or promotion.
00:25:50:25 - 00:26:08:22
Jason
Is that would you set the table to kind of just set the expectations of that? You know, this helps people kind of take a more strategic view of what they're doing. And also help position them to be more of a trusted advisor within the organization. Is that kind of some of the outcomes you can expect to see, by completing this process?
00:26:08:24 - 00:26:39:03
Jennifer
Absolutely. People are feeling more confident in what they know. Most folks in this space learned as they went, right? They maybe had a traditional marketing background, or studied marketing in college, but very little of it was more than history of social. So they're feeling like what they know might be under that whole imposter syndrome piece right after certification steps in and says, hey, I actually know what I'm talking about here.
00:26:39:03 - 00:26:54:28
Jennifer
I feel more confident in sharing that, with my peers, I am seen as an expert with from my peers now in a way that I wasn't before, which allows me to chat more at that table and to provide insights at the table. So it really does help in that way as well.
00:26:55:00 - 00:27:11:20
Jason
Sure. In your study, and I apologize if you might have mentioned this among the things we talked about. But in your study, are you finding, you know, any data points about either imposter syndrome and or burnout? In the social media role?
00:27:11:22 - 00:27:49:10
Jennifer
So imposter syndrome, we get very anecdotally, people talk about how the certification has given them more confidence and allows them to feel more credible as they're talking with either clients or leadership. But burnout is a real thing. So we are seeing and the data in the study has actually shown us that, people are leaving the industry right now when we shouldn't be seeing that, with an industry that's about 15 to 20 years old, we should see a larger group of people today in the space than we did three years ago.
00:27:49:13 - 00:28:17:22
Jennifer
That have that ten plus years of experience. We don't they're they're stepping away from the industry. They're stepping away from social media. And most of that is because of, of burnout. Might be because of, the 24 over seven on pressure that they're experiencing or it might be because of lack of support. They don't feel heard by their leadership when they need to take a break.
00:28:17:24 - 00:28:40:08
Jennifer
There's a lot of folks in our community who we've brought in to help really support folks through the mental health capacities that are affected and working in social all the time. Right. And our leadership just hasn't caught up with that. Right? I mean, we're as a as a country, our mental health epidemic is hugely a problematic anyways.
00:28:40:11 - 00:29:03:04
Jennifer
But when you throw in, always on digital environment where you can't always unplug because it is your job, you need your leadership to be there and support that unplugging or to come and bring somebody else in when you're on vacation. So you can really step away. And we're not seeing that happen as well as we need to.
00:29:03:04 - 00:29:07:00
Jennifer
And so those are some of the reasons that we're getting for people leaving the space.
00:29:07:03 - 00:29:29:00
Jason
Right? Yeah, I totally agree with that. And we see that even at our own agency and certainly on the client side as well, when the clients have social media teams, there's very high turnover there. You know, we find that, you know, people want to be on our social media team, generally speaking, either right out of college or something like that, they get on the team.
00:29:29:02 - 00:29:52:29
Jason
And I think to me, my observation is that they are unaware of the fact of the amount of work. That this takes. So they enjoy doing social media as a hobby and they, you know, went to college and they got a degree in communication, public relations, whatever it might be, they might have even gotten a social media certification of some sort from the college or university or a class or two there.
00:29:52:29 - 00:30:14:13
Jason
And they thought, wow, this is really cool. I'd like to be involved. But, you know, unlike their personal social media account, which is very casual and sociable, you know, you have to be, professional yet interesting enough and engaging enough. You also have to be free of, you know, typos and grammar and all that kind of stuff while still being conversational.
00:30:14:15 - 00:30:34:18
Jason
And so I, I sense that it the dawns on them that this is a real work and a difficult profession. Right. And so it's not it's not the fun that they thought it would be. And I also think that sometimes, I think especially young professionals, they feel like they're going to be the personality or the influencer, of the channel.
00:30:34:25 - 00:30:58:29
Jason
And I don't think they were expecting that either, you know, kind of thing. And so, are you seeing that in some of your research, as well, or what, you know, and what kind of advice would you give to somebody who, you know, might be feeling that burnout and, and maybe and then it's amplified by the imposter syndrome of I'm asking for help and no one's listening because they think I've got this, you know, fun, cool, easy job.
00:30:59:02 - 00:31:26:22
Jennifer
Yeah. So I'm going to start with that latter point of people who are in the space feeling unsupported. There are people here that get it. The community at the National Institute for Social Media, for one. So find a community, whether it be hours or something more in your space. Right. That you can collaborate with, commiserate with and just share resource sources.
00:31:26:24 - 00:31:51:29
Jennifer
It is important to be surrounded by people who understand what you do. And yes, we ideally want to help get the leadership on team, or on board and to understand what you and your team are doing and how stressful that might be, but one step at a time. So right now, make sure you're covering yourself by surrounding yourself with a, a good community for those folks that are entering the space.
00:31:51:29 - 00:32:13:11
Jennifer
You know, I just did a, session this morning with the college group, and I said, you know what? I know you probably don't want to hear this. As juniors and seniors getting ready to finish your four year bachelor's degree, but you're not done when you graduate, especially in business or marketing, you have to stay current. Things are changing so quickly.
00:32:13:11 - 00:32:38:20
Jennifer
I mean, we kind of mentioned I early on, right? It is expanding and changing in exponential ways daily that we just can't even fathom or understand. And so the jobs that they think they're preparing themselves for are going to look different by the time they graduate. And so let's be open to figuring out what it is we really like and how we contribute into an organization.
00:32:38:20 - 00:33:04:02
Jennifer
That way. I spent a lot of time, at a recent conference helping a few content creators understand that just because their personal brand has millions of followers and they're able to make people laugh or engage, doesn't mean that they can go out and become the face of a health care brand to be successful, for example.
00:33:04:08 - 00:33:05:10
Jason
Right.
00:33:05:12 - 00:33:28:23
Jennifer
We really need to understand how do we play in what is our circle of influence and how do we use that right to better move things forward? A personal brand, like you said, and a business brand are two very different things. And one of the examples I like to give is in the health care space. I mean, we just went through a global pandemic a few years ago.
00:33:28:25 - 00:34:00:20
Jennifer
If you stop for a second and remember how terrified you or your family members or your neighborhood or your kids were, and then you think about that person on your social who's consistently yelling at people and or brands about, you know, what they didn't do right. Put that in the perspective of being the person answering that. For a health care system in the middle of a global pandemic, right?
00:34:00:22 - 00:34:48:09
Jennifer
Oh my goodness, where they beat up beyond belief or higher education as colleges and universities who charge a lot of money for the education they provide, could no longer send the students to a physical classroom, they had to take it from their dorm room or stay it away, right, and do it all online. Yeah. And people attacked those institutional brands and didn't think for a second that there was a human behind it who one didn't make those decisions for them, but two was responsible to try to educate and, empathize and and sympathize and relate and share the concerns that you have as a person.
00:34:48:09 - 00:35:03:24
Jennifer
Have that will give you some insight into what it is like to work in this space. And if you can't do that, if you can adjust and if you can't put yourself into the shoes of someone else, then there might be a different path.
00:35:03:26 - 00:35:21:26
Jason
Yeah for sure. That's very good. And just switching back to imposter syndrome for a moment. I'm going to have Holly add to our episode notes, a link to a past podcast where we talked about imposter syndrome for a whole episode and brought in an author, and speaker, about that topic named, Chris.
00:35:21:28 - 00:35:44:29
Jason
And then in addition, we'll put in the episode notes, a link to the accreditation and public relations that I mentioned earlier for people who aren't aware of that program. And then lastly, of course, a link to the, promo code for an offer for a, free ebook from your organization as well. So, Jennifer, if somebody wants to reach out to you and continue the conversation with you, is LinkedIn the best way for them to find you?
00:35:45:01 - 00:35:55:12
Jennifer
LinkedIn really is. You can find me as Jennifer Radtke there. I show up. If you Google me, you can probably find me other places as well. So I, I welcome any connections.
00:35:55:14 - 00:36:28:02
Jason
Wonderful. All right. Well Jennifer, I thought this was a great episode. Thank you for spending time and investing your time, in helping our audience stay on top of PR and, and learning more about social media and the opportunity to, continue their education there. And I would encourage anyone who's listening, as a leader, as well as somebody who is maybe a professional or a tactician that might want to explore, you know, how can I invest in my career, in my organization, or invest in my people, to look at this and other certification programs?
00:36:28:02 - 00:36:47:28
Jason
Because I know our organization, we benefit from that. And we're, you know, improvement is one of our core values, which is kind of code for professional development. And so we're constantly trying to make sure our people are doing something on a quarterly basis to advance themselves and advance, the profession that they're in as well. So, Jennifer, I think this is a very timely topic.
00:36:47:28 - 00:36:49:16
Jason
I appreciate you being here today.
00:36:49:18 - 00:36:51:28
Jennifer
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Jason. It was my pleasure.
00:36:52:00 - 00:37:12:16
Jason
Yeah, mine as well. Thank you. So with that, this has been another episode of On Top of PR. Thank you for tuning in today. Thank you for your loyalty as an audience member. And if you found value in this, presentation today, I hope you'll take a minute to either share it with a colleague who you think would benefit from it, or take a minute to leave us an online review in the platform of your choice where you consume this content. And with that, this is Jason Mudd signing off from On Top of PR. Be well.
00:37:12:16 - 00:38:08:07
Announcer
This has been On Top of PR with Jason Mudd presented by ReviewMaxer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check out past episodes at ontopofpr.com.
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About your host Jason Mudd
On Top of PR host, Jason Mudd, is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist for some of America’s most admired brands and fastest-growing companies. Since 1994, he’s worked with American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon. He founded Axia Public Relations in July 2002. Forbes named Axia as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
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