In this solocast episode, On Top of PR host Jason Mudd responds to a fan letter about tips for pitching to podcasts.
Tune in to learn more!
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the episode here:
5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:
- Do your research — know the show
- Pitch uniqueness and expertise
- Follow up
- Avoid common mistakes
- Preparation and promotion matters
About Jason Mudd
Jason Mudd hosts On Top of PR. The World Communication Forum named him North America’s top PR leader. He is a professional public speaker, accredited public relations practitioner, published author, podcaster, and entrepreneur.
Jason is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist to some of America’s most admired and fastest-growing companies. His past PR clients include American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon.
He’s the CEO and managing partner of Axia Public Relations. Forbes Magazine named Axia one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
Quotables
- “It’s ultra-important to consume the podcast before pitching to understand its focus.” — @JasonMudd9 (4:23)
- “When you send a pitch, provide some context about who your expert is. A link to their LinkedIn profile would be great. If they have a common name like John Smith, maybe include a photo of what they look like so when we’re doing our due diligence, we can easily find them.” — @JasonMudd9 (7:50)
- “You’d be better off spending time crafting one great pitch than spending a little time on hundreds of pitches and getting a bunch of no’s. Double down on the shows that have the right audience, the right topic, and the right fit.” — @JasonMudd9 (15:30)
- “Come up with a really good topic — something unique that your guest has a provocative, contrarian, or unique point of view on. I’m looking for something that really pops and resonates with our audience.” — @JasonMudd9 (13:21)
- “It might be easy to say it’s easier to pitch a podcast than it is a major news outlet, but you’ve got to keep in mind there are big-time podcasts out there that are just as in demand as any mainstream, tier-one media outlet.” — @JasonMudd9 (2:36)
Resources
- Proven process for earned media coverage
- Solocast 130: Media pitching tips
- E-book: Learn Media Relations from the Media
- Connect and learn more about Jason Mudd on LinkedIn.
Additional Episode Resources from Axia Public Relations:
- Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR podcast.
- Find out more about Axia Public Relations.
Episode Highlights
[02:36] “It might be easy to say it’s easier to pitch a podcast than it is a major news outlet, but you’ve got to keep in mind there are big-time podcasts out there that are just as in demand as any mainstream, tier-one media outlet.”
[04:23] “It’s ultra-important to consume the podcast before pitching to understand its focus.”
[07:50] “When you send a pitch, provide some context about who your expert is. A link to their LinkedIn profile would be great. If they have a common name like John Smith, maybe include a photo of what they look like so when we’re doing our due diligence, we can easily find them.”
[13:21] “Come up with a really good topic — something unique that your guest has a provocative, contrarian, or unique point of view on. I’m looking for something that really pops and resonates with our audience.”
[15:30] “You’d be better off spending time crafting one great pitch than spending a little time on hundreds of pitches and getting a bunch of no’s. Double down on the shows that have the right audience, the right topic, and the right fit.”
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Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:29
Announcer
Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd, presented by Review Maxer.
00:00:09:29 - 00:00:25:01
Jason
Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I'm your host, Jason Mudd with Axia Public Relations. And today is a solo cast. If you've been a fan of our show for a while, you know that solo casts are every fifth episode and in every fifth episode, it's just you and me, and I'm sharing some PR thoughts.
00:00:25:03 - 00:00:46:09
Jason
Whether they're topics, tips or trends or some insights that I have to share with you. And today we're going to do just that. Today we got a piece of fan mail from user 6626 who is in Wisconsin. He writes in and he or she writes in and says, I love the podcast and would enjoy an episode on pitching to podcast.
00:00:46:11 - 00:01:07:05
Jason
Well, user 6626, whoever you are, thank you so much for writing in. We are glad that you did, and we are happy to, help you out with this request. In fact, our team thought that was a really good request. And we're very happy to share some insights from it. Real quick. I want to talk about this for, in two angles.
00:01:07:06 - 00:01:32:23
Jason
Angle number one is, you know, I'm a podcaster. So we get pitched all the time to have guests on our podcast. So I think I've got, unique experience and qualifications to help you out with that today. User 6626, as well as the rest of our audience, but also as a person who's, had a career in journalism and in PR with an emphasis in media relations and pitching media for earned media coverage.
00:01:32:26 - 00:01:50:02
Jason
I feel uniquely qualified to talk about this topic as well. So let's just start out with a quick outline that I put together here. In preparing for this episode. First of all, number one is going to be, the steps. I think they're going to be research. Step two is the pitch. Step three is following up.
00:01:50:04 - 00:02:09:08
Jason
And maybe step four or maybe somewhere in between. Step one and two is going to be this thing of knowing the show. So let me just set the table real quick. We're going to put in the episode notes back links to previous episodes where we've really done a deep dive into media relations and earned media coverage because pitching podcasts are going to be very similar to that.
00:02:09:08 - 00:02:36:27
Jason
So the handful of times we've talked about media relations and the webinar we have on pitching media and different videos, we'll put links to that to be helpful to you, as well as, some of our ebooks and other resources for your convenience. But, you know, podcasting is a little bit different. And, you know, I'll use some generalizations as I explain this to you, but not all these situations are going to be, consistent.
00:02:36:27 - 00:02:56:28
Jason
So, for example, it might be easy to say it's easier to pitch a podcast than it is a major news outlet. But you got to keep in mind there are big time podcasts as well that are out there. And, you know, they're just as in demand as any mainstream, tier one media outlet. But there are a lot of podcasts who are eager for guests.
00:02:56:28 - 00:03:20:10
Jason
And so you're providing service or value to them, just like you would be providing service or value to a news reporter when you're bringing them an expert source or helpful topic, or giving them information they didn't have for a newsworthy story. So just to get started again, I'm someone who receives, a lot of pitches to be on our podcast, and I will talk about some of the mistakes people make.
00:03:20:10 - 00:03:39:20
Jason
Are, podcast coordinator, Holly and I, we're talking before I press record, and she had a lot of thoughts on this, too. So, it's I'm very glad that she shared her input. So let me just start with my input. So it's about once a day, at least once a day, I'm getting a pitch request from someone, suggesting a guest for our show.
00:03:39:20 - 00:04:03:25
Jason
It's typically a PR person. It's typically a PR person at an agency. Or it could also be somebody, in-house. I'm sorry. Or it could be somebody who is actually pitching themself as a guest on the show. We welcome both. Both on both options. Both methods are great. It's sometimes easier to have somebody represent you from, a PR agency just because they're a professional.
00:04:03:27 - 00:04:23:01
Jason
They can handle, you know, critical feedback. They can manage the details for you, and you can focus on what is your highest and best use. The things I would say that people make a mistake again, going to our outline of, research pitch, follow up and know the show or let's call research slash know the show first, then you pitch and then you follow up.
00:04:23:03 - 00:04:46:04
Jason
So, first of all the research, let's spend some time on that. I think it's ultra important that you spend time actually consuming the podcast. I get pitches, again every day where somebody is saying, I love the show. I always learn something. What a great show you've got. You're doing a great job podcasting. Something very flattering, you know, which is nice if it's authentic.
00:04:46:04 - 00:05:15:26
Jason
But a lot of times it doesn't feel authentic. It feels like that's just a copy and paste of what they tell every podcaster and every podcast show. But where I'm getting into saying doing a research is once they flatter me than they typically have something else to say after that, like pitching their guess. And a lot of times, as is Holly pointed out before, we press record, a lot of times these people are coming to us and they're pitching us something completely out of left field, completely unrelated to the topic of on top of PR.
00:05:15:28 - 00:05:35:12
Jason
Right? And so they'll come in and say, oh, I've got great tips for small businesses, for retirement programs for their employees, or I've got great tips for small businesses, on how to negotiate better deals with their janitorial service or, you know, something like that. So number one, our target audience is not a small business owner.
00:05:35:15 - 00:06:10:19
Jason
Our target audience is not worried about small business operations. What they're worried about is, public relations, corporate communications, external relations, marketing, etc. all of these things kind of in the realm of who we are and what we do. We also get pitches from, for guests who are, you know, a graphic design expert, a paid media expert, pay per click advertising, just things that aren't specifically about PR and we're probably not going to have somebody on the show talking about those topics because they're just not related to being on top of PR.
00:06:10:21 - 00:06:31:00
Jason
You think that would be obvious in the name, but sometimes it's not. Also, we all know as public relations marketing professionals or just people interested in learning the profession that people will just spray and pray or do a shotgun effect where they blast out an email or spam everybody hoping that something works. But the truth is, as I said earlier, you'd be better off researching the outlet.
00:06:31:00 - 00:06:50:20
Jason
The are the show that you want to do, that you want to pitch. Invest a little time getting familiar with it so your pitch is right on the money, right in the bullseye and right on target. The other thing I get a lot of pitches for, believe it or not, are other PR firms wanting their own or their leadership team member or somebody to be on our show, and we just don't do that?
00:06:50:22 - 00:07:14:19
Jason
You know, we produce this podcast, through Axia. Axia funds it. It's our company, our agency. We want to make sure the word is getting out about Axia. We're not inclined to put, somebody else, in the spotlight from, our eight from another agency. And so that's just kind of like common sense things that I notice are kind of missing from a lot of the pitches that we get.
00:07:14:21 - 00:07:29:08
Jason
And the other thing is when you are sending a pitch, and I went through an episode recently where I kind of dissect some of the pitches that I've received, either for the podcast or for other things, and we'll definitely put a link to that in the episode notes. If you hadn't seen that solo cast, I thought it was a pretty good one.
00:07:29:10 - 00:07:50:15
Jason
But Holly had a couple points. When you send a pitch, she's asking or she has a good suggestion, which is, you know, provide some context about who your expert is, meaning, you know, a link to their LinkedIn, profile would be great. And if they've got a common name like John Smith or something, and you didn't provide a LinkedIn link, you know, maybe a photo of what they look like.
00:07:50:15 - 00:08:22:02
Jason
So when Holly and team are doing their due diligence and kind of, screening and vetting who these people are on social media and other places, they can easily find you. And if they if you have a general name like John Smith, maybe a photo to make sure it's the right person that, you know, she's looking into because believe it or not, we're going to vet that person before we even respond to your email to make sure that they, you know, look at their social media following, look at their credentials, look at their experience, and just kind of make sure that we feel like it makes sense for that.
00:08:22:02 - 00:08:45:18
Jason
So that's a really good tip. And just kind of help us understand how big is this person's following, if they've written a book, how many copies have been sold? You know, just any kind of data points that kind of help them stand out. So if this person has a million followers on social media and they're true organic followers, that could be interesting to us, because that means that when they help promote the show, that's going to be valuable.
00:08:45:18 - 00:09:14:14
Jason
And by the way, that should be part of your offer too, is to help co promote the episode between mutual platforms. And then following up, you need to follow up. Following up is really important. Don't neglect or overlook follow ups. Follow ups are the key to success. So when you are, for this episode of, Pitching podcast, I'm going to say work in pre plan your follow ups, just like you had pre-planned your efforts for, the original pitch.
00:09:14:14 - 00:09:33:04
Jason
So once you've done the original pitch, I would recommend you schedule a series of following up. Maybe not automated, maybe not dripped, but in some way where you've already kind of thought through. What additional value in this case could I add to Jason and his team for on top of PR as a good reason to get me to come on the show.
00:09:33:06 - 00:10:00:27
Jason
So for example, number one, you might say, you know, you send your base pitch, right, which is hopefully covering the things I talked about. And there's a follow up, you say, hey, you know, if you need more topics, here are a few more you could consider that my expert would be good at. You can follow up again and just say, hey, just so you know, you know, my expert is going to be speaking at this prominent conference coming up or, you know, or maybe it's the Public Relations Society of America, NSA's international conference called Icon.
00:10:00:27 - 00:10:26:24
Jason
So maybe your expert is going to be speaking for our show, at least at PRC icon. You want to draw attention to that. Maybe your speaker, maybe your expert just won an award. Maybe they're dropping a book like give me another hook to kind of refresh why we should consider this person. And if you don't hear back from us right away, by the way, speaking of follow ups, maybe it's because we're still vetting them, or we're doing some work on our own to try to learn more about this person, and make an internal decision.
00:10:27:01 - 00:10:46:04
Jason
You know, we don't meet every day to talk about who our upcoming guests would be. And by the way, we're recording episodes sometimes two months ahead of time. And so it's not like we need to respond immediately, to your query. We'll just put it on the list of consideration. Speaking of the list consideration, you may not be aware that we've got like, you know, 510.
00:10:46:04 - 00:11:04:16
Jason
I don't know how many people listed as kind of like, hey, one day maybe we might interview this person, kind of thing. And that's always good to have. Going back, kind of knowing the show, I want you to know whether or not the show is an audio or video version. If it's audio or video, you need to make sure your expert is prepared.
00:11:04:16 - 00:11:35:17
Jason
And they've got a good background, good lights, good mic, good camera, good setup. I'm amazed at how many, you know, high ranking, executives with, you know, very prominent companies, show up to do an episode with us. And we either have to, reschedule it or do a lot of hand-holding to get it set up. There's, one really big agency that we're very grateful that sends us a lot of their clients to be interviewed on the show, and their clients are really, you know, smart, experienced, and, and come from prominent organizations.
00:11:35:19 - 00:11:53:08
Jason
But candidly, we've had to do a lot of coaching to help that client of theirs be ready, camera ready, have their background look good, their lighting look good, that the agency just didn't bother doing an advance, which is really, honestly, a missed opportunity. And a little bit of a gaffe on them. You want to make sure you arrive early.
00:11:53:10 - 00:12:18:11
Jason
You want to make sure that, you know, you're ready, that you're helpful. Your guest is ready and helpful. You also want to test the setup. You want to make sure, you know, again, do a little dry run with your guests, make sure they look absolutely camera ready and they look as good as possible. Another thing to thinking, Mark, keep in mind, is we've had a lot of people, from different PR agencies or maybe even colleagues ask if they can be in attendance during the podcast.
00:12:18:11 - 00:12:39:29
Jason
And the problem is that one that actually can impact potentially, the bandwidth to, there's like a chat function in our software. And sometimes people are just jumping in and chatting during the, the stream or during the recording, which is kind of distracting for both their client or the guest, as well as for myself and the team that's working on putting producing the episode.
00:12:40:02 - 00:12:58:25
Jason
So I would say, you know, beyond pitching, once you get it booked, you know, be a good steward and a good citizen, a good participant, a quiet observer of the podcast, if they even let you do that. And honestly, what we've had to do is pull back on that. We don't allow that anymore, because of some of the negative or, experiences that we've had.
00:12:58:28 - 00:13:21:23
Jason
So that's really some thoughts that I have on, you know, how you pitch podcast. But I'm going to go into a little couple more steps here, which would be, one step is to come up with a really good topic, figure out that topic that is unique, that your expert has or your guest has, a provocative, contrarian or unique point of view that no one else has.
00:13:22:00 - 00:13:46:13
Jason
I'm looking for something that really pops and, something that makes a lot of sense, that is interesting to our audience. It's going to resonate with them. That's going to give us a really good topic or title for our show. Second thing I would do or I would keep in mind is you do this topic you gotta keep you should keep in mind that even the best professional public speakers have one topic, and they focus on that one topic only.
00:13:46:15 - 00:14:12:29
Jason
They might make that one topic is a keynote presentation, 100 times or 1000 times. And it might be just the summary of the book they wrote or of a unique position that they have in the marketplace. But I would prefer a guest that's done other podcasts. That's, you know, a real expert that knows their topic really well versus just grabbing a quick topic and and improvising or pivoting to do, our show.
00:14:13:02 - 00:14:24:10
Jason
Once you have that topic lock down, then find relevant, shows, create a list of relevant shows that are a good fit. One thing I would say is make sure those shows have guests. There are some podcasts that don't have guests, and so
00:14:24:10 - 00:14:43:24
Jason
You're kind of wasting everyone's time and you're showing that you didn't do your homework. And again, there's the pitch. Right? Then once you pitch, there's the follow up and be helpful. And then again, as I mentioned earlier, you want to promote the episode, promote the appearance. Tag these show on social media. Make sure you're drawing attention to it both before, during and after.
00:14:43:27 - 00:15:06:06
Jason
It airs. But otherwise I would encourage you to check out our other, episodes where we talk, we walk through the the 18 step process for documented, proven, process for earned media coverage, which we've recently updated to 20, steps. And a lot of the other content we produce, because pitching a podcast is really no different than pitching a radio show or a TV show or something.
00:15:06:06 - 00:15:30:14
Jason
It's just a different format. It's a little bit more on demand, and just get better with every pitch that you make, make your pitch hyper custom, you'd be better off spending a lot of time on one pitch, then spending a little time on hundreds and getting a bunch of zeros or no's, versus really doubling down on. This is the one show that we really want to be on, that has the right audience that we have a good topic for, and we think we're a good fit for.
00:15:30:16 - 00:16:04:03
Jason
And don't take it personally if the response is no, you know, I would personally rather you spend time pitching outlets that, you know, are shows that you know, are going to be a good fit, then spend a lot of time wasting, other people's time in yours, pitching something that's not a good fit. Another tool. There's a couple tools that are out there that might be interesting where you can go online, like, listen notes, has a listen score, and you can go in and search a directory, of podcasts and see which ones have what kind of viewers and just learn enough about that, that show.
00:16:04:03 - 00:16:21:26
Jason
So you've got the ability to do a good job of pitching them. So those are all my thoughts on that. If you have more questions, feel free to reach out to us. Again, we appreciate the, the request here for an episode. And, you know, pitching podcast is a great way to get your, your client out there,
00:16:21:26 - 00:16:26:00
Jason
to get yourself out there and take advantage of, of reaching new audiences.
00:16:26:04 - 00:16:44:21
Jason
And if possible, be on video. If possible, ask them for a copy of the recording, and turn those recordings into reels and make sure you tag the original show and really just promote the heck out of it. Because it's a great opportunity to get your story out there to your own audience, including their audience. Hey, so I hope this was helpful.
00:16:44:21 - 00:17:02:14
Jason
Please let us know what parts were helpful. If you learned something or found something valuable, we would love to hear about that. Otherwise, Jason Mudd here at Axia Public Relations on behalf of On top of PR with Jason Mudd signing off. Thank you for your loyalty and your listenership. And if there's anything I can do for you, please let me know.
00:17:02:14 - 00:17:10:00
Jason
Otherwise, I hope something great happens to you today and that you might spend a minute sending this episode to a colleague or friend you think would benefit from it.
00:17:10:00 - 00:17:24:18
Jason
hey, from all of us at a top, a PR and a Public Relations, we're wishing you and your family a wonderful holiday. We're going to take some time off from the show for the holidays, but we'll be back strong in 2025 and we wish you a very successful and prosperous, as well as healthy 2025. From all of us at Axia and On Top of PR, be well.
00:17:24:18 - 00:18:20:09
Announcer
This has been On Top of PR with Jason Mudd presented by Review Maxer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check out past episodes at ontopofpr.com.
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About your host Jason Mudd
On Top of PR host, Jason Mudd, is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist for some of America’s most admired brands and fastest-growing companies. Since 1994, he’s worked with American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon. He founded Axia Public Relations in July 2002. Forbes named Axia as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
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Topics: earned media, news media, On Top of PR, podcasting, solocast
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