In this episode, Kate Meyers Emery, Ph.D., joins On Top of PR host Jason Mudd to discuss ways organizations can use data-centric storytelling on social media to raise awareness and engagement.
Tune in to learn more!
Our guest
Our episode guest is Kate Meyers Emery, Ph.D., senior digital communications manager at Candid, a nonprofit providing comprehensive data and insights on the social sector.
Watch the episode here:
Listen to the episode here:
5 things you’ll learn during the full episode:
- What to do when you are swimming in data and how to turn it into a story for your organization.
- How smaller social media teams can leverage their own data.
- Ways organizations can experiment with data to drive brand awareness and engagement.
- How to create good social media content without visually appealing subjects.
- Common mistakes organizations make on social media.
About Kate Meyers Emery
Kate Meyers Emery, Ph.D., is the senior digital communications manager at Candid, where she leads the strategy, content production, and analysis of organic social media. Kate uses experimentation and data-driven storytelling to get people the information they need to do good.
Quotables
- Data is really attractive to audiences. When you use numbers, people love it. People love numerals. It's our hook. — @Kate Meyers Emery
- When you're communicating, there's two personality types: one is interested in emotion and the other is logic. If you can create a venn diagram and appeal to both at the same time without alienating one of the audiences, that's a good blend. — @JasonMudd9
- You gotta make the platforms happy. The platforms don't want you to leave social media. You have to put stuff out there that makes the platforms happy that drives more engagement on the platform. — @Kate Meyers Emery
- People want to connect with other people. People don't want to connect with faceless brands. — @Kate Meyers Emery
- There's always 3 options. If you get more than that, you get analysis paralysis, and no one wants to make a decision. And the simple answer is usually the best answer. — @JasonMudd9
Resources
- Canva
- Toggle Track
- Sprout Social
- Connect and learn more about Kate Meyers Emery, Ph.D., on LinkedIn
- Visit Candid for more information
Additional Episode Resources from Axia Public Relations:
- Listen to more episodes of the On Top of PR podcast
- Find out more about Axia Public Relations
- How to use short-form video to maximize social media engagement
- Are external links in the comments of social media posts worth it?
- How to plan and create video content to ensure maximum performance and reach
- How to use social media to promote your company
Episode highlights
[04:30] How to manage all the data
[06:35] Strategies for each platform
[09:48] Ways for smaller social teams to leverage data on social media
[13:09] Gauging audience interest and tracking
[35:17] Social media mistakes
[37:35] Writing backwards for a good hook
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Transcript
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:29
Announcer
Welcome to On Top of PR with Jason Mudd, presented by ReviewMaxer.
00:00:09:29 - 00:00:24:10
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to On Top of PR. I’m your host, Jason Mudd.. Today we're talking about data and storytelling on social media. Our special guest is Kate Meyers Emery, Ph.D.. she our Kate is the senior digital communications manager at Candide.
00:00:24:11 - 00:00:48:00
Speaker 1
She leads the strategy, content production and analysis of organic social media. Kate uses experimentation and data driven storytelling to get people the information they need to do good. And Candide is a nonprofit providing comprehensive data and insights about the social sector. Kate, we want to welcome you to on top of PR.
00:00:48:02 - 00:01:01:02
Speaker 2
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to share. You know what candid does as a data driven nonprofit and how we're providing data to the nonprofit sector?
00:01:01:05 - 00:01:16:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Excellent. Well, we're very excited about, Our topic today is data and storytelling on social media. and so, would love to just quickly talk about how did you get into, social media as a career path?
00:01:16:17 - 00:01:42:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I kind of have an interesting career path. I actually have a PhD in mortuary archeology, which. What cemeteries? so I actually studied dead people for a very long part of my, early career. And part of what I was doing during that time was using social media to share, you know, interesting stories. I was learning to debunk misconceptions.
00:01:42:26 - 00:02:03:29
Speaker 2
And then I started to kind of pay for my degree by doing social media for organizations within the university I was at. And by the time I got to the end of my degree, I realized I loved the side hustles more than actually doing the degree that's why I decided to pursue social media and digital engagement full time.
00:02:04:02 - 00:02:16:26
Speaker 2
and was lucky enough to land here at candid, where, you know, my background in, you know, using data and telling stories really works. Well with the tools that I have.
00:02:16:29 - 00:02:58:27
Speaker 1
Awesome, awesome. So, I think today what we're hoping to accomplish is talking about how organizations can leverage data centered stories to inform, educate, and reinforce their missions on social media by highlighting example of successful campaigns and strategies. And, while your organization works with nonprofits, we're going to, also kind of apply these same principles to for profit corporations and other organizations and organizations of all kinds, because I feel like the the items we want to discuss today, are very applicable and relevant to, anyone who is involved in social media or somebody who's involved in figuring out how do we take our social media, how do I help my social media get,
00:02:59:00 - 00:03:04:00
Speaker 1
department or team or individual, get to the next level?
00:03:04:03 - 00:03:28:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm really excited to share that. You know, candid is so data driven. We're really just data nerds. And we love numbers. So we make sure that that is something that is at the forefront of all the storytelling we do. And, you know, there are really like two reasons for one being like that is our mission. Our mission is to get people data ops, to get people the information they need to do good.
00:03:28:06 - 00:03:49:08
Speaker 2
And the second is that data is something that is really attractive to audiences, right? Folks love numerals. When you use numbers, people love it. They see the numbers. They stand out from all the text. So it's a really smart thing to lead with data as well. It's it's our hook.
00:03:49:11 - 00:04:10:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, I like that. You, you raise a good point. So, you know, I've always told people when you're, when you're communicating, there's kind of this idea of two personality types, one that is interested in emotion and the other one that's interested in logic. And if you can create like a Venn diagram where you're appealing to both at the same time without alienating one of the audiences.
00:04:10:05 - 00:04:27:28
Speaker 1
To me, that's been a good blend. Now, if you know more about your audience, then you can certainly tailor your messaging and position it towards their liking. But I always think that if there's a way where you can talk about the emotional side and the data points that support it, you're going to win over, most audiences, all the time.
00:04:27:28 - 00:04:51:27
Speaker 1
So how do you help people do this? Exactly. So if you think about it like, you know, you say people love data, I don't know, I don't know if I agree that people love it, but I think they like it when it helps them argue their case. I think it's helpful to have it in their, in their toolbelt, but I think they feel a little overwhelmed when they are trying to figure out, how do I get the data, who can I get it from, or how do I pull it off and all that stuff?
00:04:52:03 - 00:05:01:24
Speaker 1
So what would you say to somebody who might have a little anxiety about, you know, kind of walking into a data driven or data centered conversation?
00:05:01:26 - 00:05:36:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that's a great question. You know, when you're when you have so much data, it can feel a little bit overwhelming. And it's finding those 1 or 2 points that are really compelling with data. I really like us to focus on just one thing. That's it. Just pick out one insight, one thing that we're leading with, and not make it too complicated of just like, here's that, that really good one single point, and then we can use the rest of our social media post to talk more about the nuance and to get that qualitative emotional side.
00:05:36:19 - 00:06:03:14
Speaker 2
We can kind of build on it. so I think, you know, a first step with it is just like really understanding the data so that you know what you're getting into, you know, if this is the appropriate one, if you have, like folks, the organization who are involved more in data, talking with them, working with them to get a more like nuanced view, that's something we do at candid a lot, is we work with the research team to figure out, like, all right, you know, this is the data point we think we like.
00:06:03:17 - 00:06:20:00
Speaker 2
Is this the actual go on for a story? Is this going to work for us? And then we kind of work back and forth to make sure I can summarize it in like a nice, snappy way that's going to get people's attention while also maintaining that nuance that's so important to data storytelling.
00:06:20:02 - 00:06:38:02
Speaker 1
Got it, got it. for the convenience of our audience, we're going to put links to your social media platforms in the episode notes so they can go check, check this out as we're talking about it. but let me ask you, are they going to see completely different content, on each social media platform, or do you typically post the same?
00:06:38:02 - 00:06:40:21
Speaker 1
What what what do you guys do in their.
00:06:40:23 - 00:07:06:26
Speaker 2
So we have two strategies going on at the same time. one is very much like a thought leadership. learn more about kind of what's happening in the sector. Broadly. We share, you know, insights that we're getting from across the entire scope of philanthropy, diving into data, diving into current trends, sharing tips. And that's more of our LinkedIn strategy.
00:07:06:28 - 00:07:29:01
Speaker 2
So that's a little bit, a little bit weightier. it's a little bit more really going for like the professionals. And then on Instagram we have a very different strategy. That strategy is education and information. How do we get you something that's going to help you today with your nonprofit? And we have a little bit of fun on Instagram as well.
00:07:29:03 - 00:07:36:28
Speaker 2
and we do use the other platforms. We just kind of take pieces from LinkedIn and Instagram and repurpose and reimagine them.
00:07:37:00 - 00:07:48:27
Speaker 1
So would you say LinkedIn is your, highest priority and secondarily would be Instagram right now?
00:07:48:27 - 00:08:18:22
Speaker 2
Yes. it has shifted, you know, as platforms shift, as priorities shift. with where candid is at the moment. LinkedIn has become a fantastic space for us. I think, you know, LinkedIn has really shifted over the last couple of years, and we've just really found our audience there, which I think speaks to the need to kind of like always be flexible with your strategy, always be kind of reevaluating where your audience is and getting the vibe.
00:08:18:25 - 00:08:23:14
Speaker 2
and yeah, LinkedIn is is really where we need to be at this moment.
00:08:23:16 - 00:08:44:29
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. Don't feel the same way about us and our agency as well. So something you were saying earlier, when you were talking about making it snappy and make sure it's relevant? you know, I think what you're also saying is what I'm really doubling down on all the time is this idea of let's be audience focused in what we're writing, like, what we're writing is about, and for our audience to help them.
00:08:45:06 - 00:08:50:26
Speaker 1
It's not about and and for us, is is that something you guys talk about often? There?
00:08:50:29 - 00:09:20:09
Speaker 2
Definitely. because we are a nonprofit, we're very mission driven. So we want our social media to be just part of our mission. so we're not promoting the organization. We're promoting the mission and what we do. and I think with that approach, it is much easier to build community, to build a conversation, to create stuff that isn't just interesting and engaging, but is shareable.
00:09:20:09 - 00:09:23:04
Speaker 2
It's savable people go back to it.
00:09:23:06 - 00:09:46:28
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's really awesome. And you know, you keep talking about mission. And I just want to remind our audience that, you know, whether you're a nonprofit or for profit, your organization should have a mission. And so, when, Kate is talking about mission, don't think that that doesn't mean or apply to you, because you're going to have a mission as well at your organization.
00:09:47:01 - 00:10:15:26
Speaker 1
All right. Kate, so the next question I have is, how can smaller social teams, which I think every social media team thinks they're small? you know, when I even when I talk to people I know at McDonald's or Ford or Nike, they're like, well, our budget small. I'm like, yeah, right. Okay. but how can smaller social media teams create a sustainable strategy, that leverages their own data and effectively incorporates it into their storytelling on social media?
00:10:15:28 - 00:10:40:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, like, yeah, everyone does feel just stretched as a social media team these days. nonprofit tiers usually like we're social media teams of one and there's a few things I think that are helpful for small teams. the first just being like, reuse your content if you have good content, if you've got a good data point, reuse it updated every year.
00:10:40:20 - 00:10:59:11
Speaker 2
Find ways, you know, use that in a video. Use it in a carousel. Use it in a text based post. Use in a graphic. I think people often get really scared that their audience is going to get bored, but less than 10% of your audience is seeing anyone post, so you don't need to worry about boredom. You need to worry about repetition.
00:10:59:11 - 00:11:20:29
Speaker 2
You need to worry about getting these into people's heads. so I think that's a big one is just like reuse content. the other thing is really to just not worry as much about expert advice, because expert advice often is for bigger teams, folks with budgets, and if you don't have that, expert advice isn't as helpful.
00:11:20:29 - 00:11:41:23
Speaker 2
So like use as a starting point more think about like what is your audience like? You know, one of the things that candid that gets pointed out to us a lot is that we have these carousels that are just black text on a yellow background and routinely I'll get people saying like, hey, you know, that's not really trending right now, but our audience loves it.
00:11:41:25 - 00:12:00:17
Speaker 2
They love it. Their favorite post, when those educational carousels come out, it's the most likes of the week. and so we keep doing them. So, you know, look at what your audience likes, use your data, focus on that instead of feeling like you got to keep up with the trends and you got to keep up with the hype.
00:12:00:19 - 00:12:16:26
Speaker 1
So when you're thinking about, success with, digital media and specifically social media, what kind of things are top of mind or, on your dashboard of things you want to look at on a regular basis for your organization? And why does that matter?
00:12:16:28 - 00:12:46:13
Speaker 2
So, because we are really trying to inform, educate, build a community. They'll trust. I really look to things like saves and shares. I want to know if are things the content that we're pushing out, if it's creating conversation, if it's useful. That's what I want to see. I want to see like the really good comments that we're getting in saying like, oh, this was helpful.
00:12:46:13 - 00:13:09:04
Speaker 2
Can you answer this question as well? I want to see if it's driving some curiosity. Yeah. those for me are better measures than just, you know, straight up engagement or impressions like, yes, it's nice to see the big numbers. They can be shiny, but if I get some really good shares and a couple really good comments, that to me is a huge win.
00:13:09:07 - 00:13:22:19
Speaker 1
Do you ever go out to the marketplace and, do questionnaires or survey or research of your audience to see what content they're looking for, or you just basing it on, level of engagement that you see.
00:13:22:22 - 00:13:45:07
Speaker 2
We're primarily basing it on engagement levels. So at the end of every year, I'll go through each platform and I'll look at, you know, what were the top thing, top types of posts, what were the bottom ones? You know what what type of post was it? What was the content? How is it done? but we do every once in a while, put out more like just general as.
00:13:45:07 - 00:14:04:25
Speaker 2
Usually at the end of the year, like, hey, what did you like? What do you want to see more of? and we have gotten some good feedback from that. I think especially when we started doing video for the first time, we were asking for a lot of feedback of like, does anybody want this? Do you want to keep seeing my face talking about nonprofit tips?
00:14:04:27 - 00:14:09:17
Speaker 2
and we got really good responses from people. So we try to do a mix.
00:14:09:19 - 00:14:23:16
Speaker 1
Are are you asking those through, through just, the social media posts by themselves, like on it's own unique post or are you putting at the bottom of a post? Is it a call to action in a video? Like how are you asking that?
00:14:23:19 - 00:14:45:19
Speaker 2
We've done it in a few ways. primarily it's been a call to action in videos. but we've also done like Instagram Stories asking for feedback and using kind of the, the tools that they have embedded in the stories to feel people out, give people different options because not everybody wants to share a comment. So I like, you know, Instagram Stories has that nice slider like it's low lift.
00:14:45:19 - 00:14:48:01
Speaker 2
It's easy. It's anonymous.
00:14:48:03 - 00:15:10:12
Speaker 1
Right? Right. Absolutely. So when you're you earlier you said you look at once a year kind of look at what were the most, engaging, post. you know, in the digital, realm, is once a year good enough or do you need to look more closely at it? Would you recommend looking more at a quarterly or monthly basis, and why or why not?
00:15:10:14 - 00:15:21:03
Speaker 2
So we do like a deep dive at the end of the year where like I block my calendar off, I'm not speaking to anyone. I have 12 cups of coffee and I am in.
00:15:21:08 - 00:15:23:23
Speaker 1
One per month. Is that what it is?
00:15:23:26 - 00:15:46:23
Speaker 2
And that's like, that's the big one. I'm kind of though on a week to week basis. I'm you know what did good this week? I'm reporting out to the rest of the communications team. You know, here's here's what's doing well, here's what's not. Let's investigate and find out why. So we do kind of a low key weekly. We also look monthly to see you know what was the top post.
00:15:46:23 - 00:16:06:26
Speaker 2
Where are we. but that like that deep dive is once a year. And honestly, it's a capacity thing if. Yeah, if I had a team with more folks, we might be doing a deep dive a little bit more often. But, you know, I think you got to work to your capacity. If you can't take it on, then you can't do it.
00:16:06:28 - 00:16:28:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right okay. We're going to take a quick break. come back on the other side with our, and have our audience join us back. But, when we come back, we're going to talk about data experimentation. We're talking about using visual short form video and so much more. So looking forward to, continuing the conversation, with you.
00:16:28:09 - 00:16:34:01
Speaker 1
so with that, we're going to take a quick break and I'll be right back on the other side with more of on top of PR.
00:16:34:01 - 00:16:58:19
Announcer
You're listening to on top of PR with your host, Jason Mudd. Jason is a trusted advisor to some of America's most admired and fastest growing brands. He is the managing partner at Axia Public Relations, a PR agency that guides news, social and web strategies for national companies. And now, back to the show.
00:16:58:19 - 00:17:16:13
Speaker 1
Welcome back to On Top of PR, we’ve got, Kate Myers and re with us from candid. Kate, it's really good to have you and appreciate you sharing all your smarts and insights today with our audience. we want to talk about data experimentation. So how can organizations experiment with data to drive better results?
00:17:16:16 - 00:17:35:00
Speaker 1
for their social media. And probably one of the ways you drive results for social media is increasing brand awareness, which is so important. Right? Everybody's looking for awareness, attention, visibility in the marketplace. So, how can organizations, experiment with data to accomplish that?
00:17:35:03 - 00:18:11:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think one of the the best ways to kind of start experimentation is to actually, like, run many experiments on social media. I think a lot of us are always kind of testing and changing little things here and there, but really doing full blown experiments and, you know, tracking how things are going, having measures of success. I think that is one of like the best ways that you can really craft your own strategy and use data and an interesting way to forward your brand.
00:18:11:10 - 00:18:31:03
Speaker 2
the way that Candide does it is we select just like one thing we want to test only one thing, that we're testing, and we pick a few measures of success. One of those is always time. Do we have the time to take this on? and we'll run an experiment for, you know, three months, see how it is.
00:18:31:03 - 00:18:49:09
Speaker 2
And if it does, great. We pull it into our strategy. And if it doesn't, we kind of take the lessons from it and move on. that's actually how we were able to start doing short form video on like, TikTok and Instagram Reels is we were like, all right, for three months, we're going to do this. We're going to take a big swing at this.
00:18:49:09 - 00:19:12:13
Speaker 2
We're going to do it five days a week. We're going to track how much time it's taking. We're going to track how many followers we get. We're going to track, like, do people even like this? What's the engagement? and then at the end of it, we're able to make a really, conscious decision of whether this was right, because, you know, all the experts say you need to be on video, but is it right for our audience?
00:19:12:13 - 00:19:14:13
Speaker 2
Is it right as an organization?
00:19:14:15 - 00:19:47:17
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah. Very smart, very smart. So help me understand when you say, do we have the time to do this? tell me kind of what is that process like? I mean, I get it, like, I can ask myself, do I have time to volunteer with this nonprofit? Yes or no? Right. It's very clear. But when you've got a team of, you know, a team of people, the dynamics of a workday and other priorities, like, do you automatically just say, do we have the time to do this because we're willing to, you know, take things off our schedule?
00:19:47:17 - 00:19:53:12
Speaker 1
Like, what's the thought process you go through to make that, analysis?
00:19:53:15 - 00:20:13:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think like when we're running the experiment itself, I actually ask people to track the time that it's taking them. So we will use tools like toggle and we'll actually time ourselves. So during the video experiment, every time I started working on a video project, I started a timer. And when I finished up with it, I would check that.
00:20:13:04 - 00:20:29:24
Speaker 2
And then at the end of the experiment, I was able to say like, okay, you know, if we want to take this on fully, I need 30% of my time to be dedicated to video, and then you're able to actually make an informed decision. I think going into it, you have no idea how much time it's going to take.
00:20:29:26 - 00:20:55:12
Speaker 2
It could take, you know, 10% of your time. It could take 50% of your time. So by doing the experiment, then you actually have data to know, like, okay, like, you know, right now we're doing a big experiment on Instagram Stories and we're tracking time there. And it's like, all right, if we want to take on Instagram Stories to this level where we're getting interesting engagement, you know, it's going to take an hour every day or it's going to take however much time.
00:20:55:12 - 00:21:14:02
Speaker 2
We're not fully done on that experiment. So I don't have the data yet. but yeah, instead of going into it with an unknown, you actually know, you know, exactly how much time you need, and then you can have a smart conversation with your team and your supervisor about like, hey, can I switch some things off my plate to somebody else so we can take this on?
00:21:14:02 - 00:21:18:25
Speaker 2
Is it worth it? You know? Do we need to hire someone else? Is it worth it to that extent?
00:21:18:27 - 00:21:25:24
Speaker 1
Let's talk about your team for just a minute. So, are you, a one person social media department?
00:21:25:27 - 00:21:53:04
Speaker 2
For the most part, yes. I do have a lot of help, though, with different aspects of it. so there are other people who are helping with creating content. We have an intern who is really helping with, video content and is right now running the Instagram Stories experiment. so I'm an almost team of one, but I do have a lot of support from other people.
00:21:53:06 - 00:22:00:11
Speaker 1
Great. Oh, of course it helps to have support. So who do you report to up in the organization? Who who oversees social media?
00:22:00:13 - 00:22:06:05
Speaker 2
So I report to our senior Director of Communications and brand awareness, Mary Stier.
00:22:06:07 - 00:22:14:12
Speaker 1
Okay okay. And the interns working well, you've mentioned it several times. So you've got to tell us more. What is the Instagram Stories experiment that you're doing?
00:22:14:15 - 00:22:34:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. So Instagram Stories is another one. Just like video we keep hearing like oh like that's where like younger generations are on Instagram. You've got to be on Instagram Stories. And it's something that has kind of just always been in the back of my mind. Like, I got to be there, we got to be there. but I don't have any data to show if it's actually worth it.
00:22:34:14 - 00:22:55:04
Speaker 2
So what we're doing is a six week experiment where we are posting twice a day on Instagram Stories, trying to mix up different types of posts. And at the end of it, we're going to see, you know, is this worth the investment? Is it worth having that much time spent in the space? Are we getting followers or are we getting engagement?
00:22:55:04 - 00:23:03:20
Speaker 2
Are we getting interactions? so I can't share yet what's happened with it, but, I'll know and I'll know in a few weeks.
00:23:03:22 - 00:23:21:19
Speaker 1
Okay. And so I've got to ask, is there a factor or element considered that I mean, with all respect that you're interns doing it like, you know, does that a variable into the quality of the, of the response? I mean, you may have an plus intern, but there's still, you know, relatively new in their experience.
00:23:21:21 - 00:23:48:25
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think, you know, she is very much kind of the one who's leading it forward. And she's has, a lot of autonomy, but she's not completely on her own. Like everything is a collaboration. I'm working with her to make sure, you know, it's up to brand standards. It's fitting with what we do. so I would not let this go forward if I did not think it was a solid, solid swing at, at it.
00:23:48:25 - 00:23:54:15
Speaker 2
So, Yeah, I have full, full confidence in everything that we're doing with us.
00:23:54:21 - 00:24:24:17
Speaker 1
Of course. Yeah. Excellent. Okay. And so let's talk about visuals for a minute. you know, we talk about visuals all the time, whether they're used for, social media presentations, corporate communications, even pitching media, right, or our own content on, on the web visuals are so important. Right. So, one of the questions we had here was, how can organizations without visually appealing can our subject, consistently create engaging social media content?
00:24:24:17 - 00:24:33:02
Speaker 1
So what are some of your tools, hacks, tips, or tricks for finding visuals when you're on a low budget or a tight timeline?
00:24:33:04 - 00:24:51:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, candid is an interesting organization in that, you know, we are a nonprofit and we serve millions of people, but we don't actually have anything to show for it. You know, we're not an animal shelter. We don't have cute puppies. We're not a museum with collections. so we don't have something that you can, like easily go out.
00:24:51:20 - 00:25:22:00
Speaker 2
We're not even all in the same office. We're remote. So it's even challenging to, like, get get that type of content. so what we've really done is leaned into, you know, educating about the work that we're doing and showing candid staff members, from across the country who are doing different things and leaned into rethinking, you know, what content can include and what content can be.
00:25:22:02 - 00:25:46:12
Speaker 2
so we've done a lot of experiments with like graphic carousels and video and figuring out, you know, what? How can we create that imagery? And honestly, a lot of it at the end of the day comes down to just really creative reuse. So if we if I have an idea, if I come up with something, if I create a video script, I'm going to make sure, you know, that's not just one video, it's three videos.
00:25:46:12 - 00:26:10:18
Speaker 2
And there's a carousel and there's a text based version and there's a graphic version. So I will pull every last thread I can and then, you know, come the next year, we'll take that same content and potentially just repost it again or we'll update it slightly. so yeah, I think if you don't have an easy source of content, you've just got to get like really creative about reuse.
00:26:10:20 - 00:26:26:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Excellent. any, special tips for, remote teams and how you can get good visuals of your remote teams working or, showing people, in your organization when everyone's remote?
00:26:26:16 - 00:26:51:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So candid. is mostly, hybrid and remote. So we do have some team members that are in person, and we do have moments where we all gather together. So whenever we gather, I get as much content as I can. Right? I'm that's that's all I'm doing. Like, I'm walking around with my phone and like, people are, you know, they're they're waiting for me to come up and ask for favors.
00:26:51:14 - 00:27:10:12
Speaker 2
so, you know, if I'm in the office, I'm going to get content for 15 videos and I'm going to take as many photos as I can. I also, you know, I'm constantly asking people like, hey, you're going to this event, can you take a photo? Hey, you're going to this. You get a quick video for me, right?
00:27:10:14 - 00:27:30:24
Speaker 2
you know, I really do think social media is a team sport. It's not just on me like I'm the person who's posting. I'm the person who's making sure it's on brand. But I think the whole organization should be really thinking about, like, how do we put ourselves out there? What could we share? so I really invite that and, really want to support that enthusiasm.
00:27:30:26 - 00:27:56:22
Speaker 2
So when someone does share a photo, I make sure they know, like, this was the best thing ever. Thank you for sharing it. Please give me more like this. I'll let them know after the fact. Like, hey, here's how many likes you got. Here's what happened to this. so I think it is like, you know, get other people involved so that if there is that moment where, like people are gathering or there is a cool opportunity, other people have social media on the brain.
00:27:56:27 - 00:27:58:15
Speaker 2
It's not just me.
00:27:58:18 - 00:28:25:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, we have clients. One in common in particular that's got like 350 locations, right? And so we're always trying to train like, you know, digital journalist, digital content creators and just saying, hey, we need you to be our ambassador for social media at your location. And so, you know, we would do lunch and learns and we would train them how to take better photos and how to think for the type of content that we would want to have photos of later or video of later, instead of hearing about how great the event was.
00:28:25:00 - 00:28:46:00
Speaker 1
And the other day and I'm like, oh, did you get video or footage or, you know, photos for us? And they were like, I didn't even think about that. So we've we kind of started creating checklists and all these materials to a clip. Candidly, people who are, you know, office managers or, you know, sales managers or something else, you know, and in each market to feel empowered to do it.
00:28:46:00 - 00:29:06:01
Speaker 1
So, you know, that's something that I would highly recommend that our audience does as well as kind of, you know, make friends, make, ambassadors and affiliates, if you will, in each of the locations who are willing to help you with that. So, I know we talked a little bit about, short form video already, but I do want to ask you, you know, we know it's powerful.
00:29:06:03 - 00:29:27:16
Speaker 1
we know it works. So why do you think so many organizations are hesitant to embrace, short form video into their, marketing PR strategy? Much less their social media strategy? I would think, you know, if you've got a good social media strategy, top of mind is doing video, but maybe not. So why do you think there is that, hesitation?
00:29:27:19 - 00:29:48:19
Speaker 2
I think there's, you know, really good reasons for people to be hesitant about doing video. I mean, it takes time. It takes way more time than people think, even if it's just like, oh, it seems like a fun off the cuff video. Like it's probably not off the cuff. It's probably very practiced. you know, and it also takes folks who want to be on camera.
00:29:48:21 - 00:30:08:08
Speaker 2
You have to have somebody who's enthusiastic, you can train someone to be better on camera. You can train someone to talk a certain way, but if they're not interested in it, if they're not enthusiastic, it's going to show. And people are not going to like that. you know, it it isn't necessarily that it costs a lot.
00:30:08:08 - 00:30:38:07
Speaker 2
You know, we use primarily like, phones for what we're doing. it's I think it's the other investments in it that make people hesitant. and so, you know, even though, like, we've taken on video and it is a really core part of our strategy now, like, I wouldn't recommend it to folks like, unless they have someone who's, who's into it, who's who's gonna who's going to be there and is gonna hype other people up and is going to want to do it.
00:30:38:09 - 00:30:41:06
Speaker 2
so I do think there are valid reasons.
00:30:41:08 - 00:30:47:13
Speaker 1
So people who like it want it and and have the skills to do it.
00:30:47:15 - 00:30:57:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. And some of the skills you can even get, I think it's that it's enthusiast. if you don't want to be on video, everyone will know. And no one's going to like that.
00:30:57:18 - 00:31:18:12
Speaker 1
That's great. That's funny. good. So, let's see, the last question I'd scheduled to ask you, and then, then we'll talk about a little bit more. but, can you share a few examples of successful social media campaigns, where data informed storytelling made a significant impact?
00:31:18:14 - 00:31:50:09
Speaker 2
Yes. You know, a great one is, last year we released a report about funding, to historically black colleges and universities or HBCUs. And one of the big findings was that for every dollar foundations we're giving to an Ivy League school, HBCUs only received $0.56, which is like the Ivy leagues are getting. This is like 178 times more funding.
00:31:50:11 - 00:32:22:09
Speaker 2
and it was this like big shocking number. And it was like, great because you could visually show like, here's $100 bill, here's $0.56. and once we were able to grab attention with those kind of big, flashy numbers, then we're able to share the stories from individuals who attended HBCUs. And, you know, the impact that these organizations have had, the value of the, why the funding is so critical here.
00:32:22:11 - 00:32:45:29
Speaker 2
and I think like that that was a really good one to show, like the power of data as a hook for getting people in, and then combining that with the qualitative data of the stories from actual people who are experiencing, you know, what that lack of funding does or what having ample funding can do for an HBCU and the people who are attending them.
00:32:46:01 - 00:32:49:17
Speaker 2
so that was a really great one.
00:32:49:19 - 00:32:58:03
Speaker 1
So do you have you we talked earlier about your team. So you have an art department that helps you come up with these graphics and images, or are you also in charge of that.
00:32:58:05 - 00:33:06:05
Speaker 2
We do have a design team. I do create most of the social media graphics though.
00:33:06:07 - 00:33:07:06
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:33:07:09 - 00:33:17:02
Speaker 2
what do you think? So. So like, social media graphics are kind of a unique thing. so yeah, being in the midst of it's usually me.
00:33:17:05 - 00:33:21:01
Speaker 1
What are some of your favorite or go to tools.
00:33:21:03 - 00:33:45:25
Speaker 2
I love Canva you know I think I think Canva gets a lot of a lot of hate in the social media world because you with Canva, you can like, you know, throw up a template with the nice like curvy font and it can look like a Canva doc. but you can put in your own branding, you can put in all your own tools, you can have it set to your fonts.
00:33:45:28 - 00:34:06:11
Speaker 2
And so like as much as like I love Photoshop. Photoshop is great for things, but like Canva is so easy and it makes it so easy to create things and so easy to collaborate with other people who have different levels of understanding. and also nonprofits get Canva for free, so.
00:34:06:12 - 00:34:06:23
Speaker 1
Oh, nice.
00:34:06:26 - 00:34:11:23
Speaker 2
That's a that's a that's a big tip. So any nonprofits you can get Canva Pro for free.
00:34:11:25 - 00:34:20:02
Speaker 1
There you go. Nice. what other, tools are in your tech stack that you that you just love?
00:34:20:05 - 00:34:47:23
Speaker 2
we use Sprout Social as our social listening and calendar tool. I've been a big fan of Sprout Social for a long time. I think having a really good tool for social listening is just key, so that you don't have to do it all by your hand and look for it. I will say, I think my, like, favorite buddy, given how much I love data and love experiments, I love spreadsheets.
00:34:47:25 - 00:35:01:13
Speaker 2
Absolutely like everything. It's like a joke at this point in the department of just like everything becomes a spreadsheet with me. but I just love putting data into spreadsheets and coming up with great ways to track things.
00:35:01:16 - 00:35:09:06
Speaker 1
So has your team bought you one of those coffee mugs? It says freak in the sheets, a spreadsheet with the logo of Excel in the background.
00:35:09:08 - 00:35:13:18
Speaker 2
Not yet, but that is going on my holiday wish list.
00:35:13:20 - 00:35:29:12
Speaker 1
Yeah that exists. I've seen it. Okay. good. What are some common mistakes that you see people, organizations making with their social media that you know, just kind of makes you facepalm or, gives you the creeps or, raises your blood pressure a little bit.
00:35:29:15 - 00:35:45:11
Speaker 2
I love that question. I think mine is when people are so focused on, like, calls to action that they have like a call to action every single day, and they'll have multiple calls to action in one post.
00:35:45:14 - 00:35:47:00
Speaker 1
Ouch. Yeah. That's. Yeah.
00:35:47:03 - 00:36:07:27
Speaker 2
I mean that like, when, when someone has like, you know, five things they want someone to do on a post, I'm like, you know, I won't click on that. Like, I'm not doing that. like, how would how would I expect other people to do that? yeah, I really the, the too many, too many links is one for me.
00:36:07:27 - 00:36:27:20
Speaker 2
I really try to make sure, like, you just focus. If there is a call to action, there's only one, and we're spreading those out. You got to make the platforms happy. The platforms don't want you to leave social media, so you have to put stuff out there that makes the platforms happy, which is no links. It's going to drive more engagement on platform.
00:36:27:22 - 00:36:34:23
Speaker 2
so yeah, when people when people get too happy with, with links, I can feel it in.
00:36:34:25 - 00:36:41:00
Speaker 1
How, how often do you recommend they put a link in a, in a post zero?
00:36:41:02 - 00:37:07:27
Speaker 2
Definitely not zero. I think it's finding something that works for your audience. my rule is that usually, you know, 40% should be link free. which, you know, twice a week. Yeah, just have none. I think it also depends on your organization. Like we we write a lot of really interesting articles about the social sector, and nonprofit work on candid insights.
00:37:07:29 - 00:37:27:23
Speaker 2
And so we are doing a lot of sharing of that type of content that includes links, but we try to do it in more creative ways. So it's not just like here, click my link or like driving that curiosity. so I think to some extent like everyone needs to find their own balance, but you got to have at least one post a week that like, it's just a post.
00:37:27:25 - 00:37:33:21
Speaker 2
It's a photo, it's a carousel. It's not it's not driving people to do something.
00:37:33:23 - 00:37:42:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Any other, kind of, rules of thumb like this that you, that you use and adopt and you think others should.
00:37:42:08 - 00:38:05:01
Speaker 2
I think my favorite one, and this often comes from, like, training a lot of folks who are just getting started in social media is that you need to write backwards. So I think we're trained in school that, you know, you lead with really general information and then you provide some context and then you put the best possible thing at the end of the paragraph, like that's what you're trained in school of how to write.
00:38:05:04 - 00:38:23:24
Speaker 2
I'm always telling people like, no, no, no, you got to hook them. Whatever is the best thing always goes to the top. That's the first thing, your first sentence, your first five seconds in a video, you know, the first photo on a carousel, whatever it is that needs to grab on. So, you know, write backwards.
00:38:23:26 - 00:38:27:03
Speaker 1
All right, I like that. Say that again.
00:38:27:05 - 00:38:28:18
Speaker 2
Write backwards.
00:38:28:20 - 00:38:35:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean like explain the concept. And and also maybe give like an example if you can't off the cuff.
00:38:35:20 - 00:39:01:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. So my favorite tip is to tell people to write backwards. So we are trained to write with the best thing being the last part. So lead with something general. so that could be something like, you know, there are a lot of nonprofits and then you add a little bit of context, you know, nonprofits range in size from places that are completely volunteer run to organizations with hundreds of employees.
00:39:01:20 - 00:39:25:12
Speaker 2
And then at the end, you know, give the give the interesting thing, the thing that, you know, it's going to be the, the thing that's going to really get them. So, you know, but of the 18 million or 1.8 million nonprofits, 1.12 million of them have under ten employees. and I think, you know, you had to switch that.
00:39:25:12 - 00:39:41:03
Speaker 2
So the biggest shocking thing is of 1.8 million organizations, 1.12 have under ten employees. Yeah. And then we can get into the context and then you can give the more general thing. So I think it's it's flipping the script.
00:39:41:06 - 00:40:07:18
Speaker 1
That's I was going to say flipping the script or the plot twist at the beginning. Right. So you know you're, you're hooking them in. So I appreciate you sharing that because I think that was a really good example of, of helping, people kind of understand, the idea there. And, you know, I thought at first you were going to describe, inverted pyramid, but inverted pyramid is different where you can just kind of like, cut it in half and it stands alone by itself because you did put the most important parts at the beginning.
00:40:07:25 - 00:40:22:24
Speaker 1
But what you're saying is put kind of the hook or the juice or the meat to the, the content, up front. So, yeah, I really like that. That's good. Kate, anything else that you, feel inclined to share with our audience?
00:40:22:27 - 00:40:30:15
Speaker 2
Oh, wow.
00:40:30:18 - 00:40:52:08
Speaker 2
yeah. I think, you know, the other thing that I think is really important for people to remember is, you know, social media needs to be social. I think that's the other thing that I find myself repeating all the time is like, these are spaces for engagement and community, and especially post-pandemic. Like people want to connect with other people.
00:40:52:11 - 00:41:15:14
Speaker 2
They don't want to connect with faceless brands. So finding ways to make your brand feel human centered. I mean, we are a data organization. We're data nerds, but we're also people persons. We are very human centered. We make sure that you see who's working at candid, that you see who we are as people and that we center the people that we're serving.
00:41:15:14 - 00:41:30:25
Speaker 2
And I think every organization should be thinking that way. and yeah, engaging people or finding ways to create conversation, create space for that. I think that is that is key to social media right now.
00:41:30:28 - 00:41:55:22
Speaker 1
Nice. Okay. I like that a lot. you know, it seems so simple but so true. Right. And, and I think, I think it's very, very good to hear reminders and to frequently remind, you know, our audience of, you know, the best things we can do or the simplest things and, you know, I often talk about, like, you know, how Apple does a really good job of, you know, keeping things very simple.
00:41:55:27 - 00:42:06:22
Speaker 1
There's always three options, right? if you start getting more than that, it starts to become analysis paralysis, and nobody wants to make a decision. And so, you know, the simple answer is usually the best answer.
00:42:06:24 - 00:42:07:27
Speaker 2
Exactly.
00:42:07:29 - 00:42:20:13
Speaker 1
Okay. I really enjoyed having you on the show. Tell me tell our audience how they can get in touch with you if they're interested and and asking you questions or getting to know you better or your organization better. What what are ways that they can get in touch?
00:42:20:15 - 00:42:44:08
Speaker 2
Well, definitely find candid on social media. so we're at candid.org on Instagram. And you can look up, us on LinkedIn as well. and we're candidate org on most platforms. if people want to reach out to me and chat, I'm always happy to. You can find me on LinkedIn at Kate Meyers Emery.
00:42:44:10 - 00:43:06:28
Speaker 1
Perfect. Well, we'll be sure to put a link, in the episode notes to, to everything we've talked about today as far as any formal nouns or anything brand, so that people can easily find those and we'll put links to your social media, as well. So it's easy for people to find. but again, I appreciate you coming out today and joining us on the show.
00:43:06:28 - 00:43:24:29
Speaker 1
I appreciate our audience tuning in. I think this was a good episode. I know I picked up a few things that, I'll nudge our social media team about and make sure that they're doing and ask them to listen to this episode and see what nuggets and takeaways they might have heard that will be applicable to improving what we're doing, not only for our agency, but also for our clients.
00:43:24:29 - 00:43:27:01
Speaker 1
So, Kate, appreciate you being here today.
00:43:27:03 - 00:43:32:26
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. It was great to have a conversation and fun to chat through these.
00:43:32:28 - 00:43:55:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Well with that, that's another episode of On Top of PR. We really appreciate your support and, and, and faithfulness to our show. we are back after a little summer hiatus and very excited to bring you new episodes every other week here with on top of VR. If you benefited from this episode, please let us know how and why.
00:43:55:02 - 00:44:02:17
Speaker 1
but more importantly, take a moment to share this with a friend or colleague who you think would benefit from what we talked about today. And with that, I'm Jason Mudd from Axia Public Relations. Signing off. And, wishing you the best in staying on top
00:44:02:17 - 00:44:58:08
Announcer
This has been on top of PR with Jason Mud presented by Review Mixer. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and check out Paso's ad on top of pr.com.
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About your host Jason Mudd
On Top of PR host, Jason Mudd, is a trusted adviser and dynamic strategist for some of America’s most admired brands and fastest-growing companies. Since 1994, he’s worked with American Airlines, Budweiser, Dave & Buster’s, H&R Block, Hilton, HP, Miller Lite, New York Life, Pizza Hut, Southern Comfort, and Verizon. He founded Axia Public Relations in July 2002. Forbes named Axia as one of America’s Best PR Agencies.
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